Sale or Return - Think I have been conned
Discussion
Nightmare scenario, I handed over my car to a garage stocking high end cars. I am in Scotland the garage is in England. The car was given without the V5 (not that that maters too much it would seem) and I signed basic agreement allowing them to sell the car on my behalf, if they don't sell the car then it would be returned to me.
They are saying they have sold the car and the finance for the car has been transferred to them by the new owner, in which case my dispute now rest with getting my cash from them. The latest excuse is that the owner has been in a car crash and is in intensive care, nothing can be transferred until his return. Total bull.
I am hoping the car is still on their sales yard and I can go and take the car back. If not then is down to chasing the company for the money.
What on earth made me trust them and hand over the car on a sale or return basis. In terms of proving ownership the only thing I have is the original sale receipt. They have nothing, so if the car hasn't been sold and is still there, great. If it been sold then this could be a nightmare. Sale or return is not a route I would recommend.
Does anyone have advice or has anyone been in a similar situation and navigated their way through this kind of mess?
They are saying they have sold the car and the finance for the car has been transferred to them by the new owner, in which case my dispute now rest with getting my cash from them. The latest excuse is that the owner has been in a car crash and is in intensive care, nothing can be transferred until his return. Total bull.
I am hoping the car is still on their sales yard and I can go and take the car back. If not then is down to chasing the company for the money.
What on earth made me trust them and hand over the car on a sale or return basis. In terms of proving ownership the only thing I have is the original sale receipt. They have nothing, so if the car hasn't been sold and is still there, great. If it been sold then this could be a nightmare. Sale or return is not a route I would recommend.
Does anyone have advice or has anyone been in a similar situation and navigated their way through this kind of mess?
tp81 said:
and the finance for the car has been transferred to them by the new owner, in which case my dispute now rest with getting my cash from them. The latest excuse is that the owner has been in a car crash and is in intensive care, nothing can be transferred until his return. Total bull
Could you expand on the above point please? Who does the finance relate to?
Sorry, the new owner has financed the car. I have had someone go past the showroom approx 10 mins ago and the car is no longer on their site, so I need to assume its legitimate that they have sold the car. I haven't been asked by the DVLA to confirm the transfer of the V5 which I think is strange we still have this in our possession.
The way they described their business model was that they get a commission rate from the finance company they use, slim margins but it allows them to hold more stock. Naive on my part.
The way they described their business model was that they get a commission rate from the finance company they use, slim margins but it allows them to hold more stock. Naive on my part.
There are a few dealers that sell cars on behalf of the owners for more exotic kit - a friend did this around 6 months ago and was paid up in full to the amount agreed with no trouble, not sure who it was with.
There are a few ways to look at it - The accident is genuine and the money will follow - They are in a cash flow situation and your money will keep them afloat / comfy until they have enough spare to pay you - They are total crooks and you have been fleeced.
I am going with number 2 and they will pay up late.
There are a few ways to look at it - The accident is genuine and the money will follow - They are in a cash flow situation and your money will keep them afloat / comfy until they have enough spare to pay you - They are total crooks and you have been fleeced.
I am going with number 2 and they will pay up late.
Edited by Rick1.8t on Wednesday 9th September 17:59
Sorry OP, have read your post through several times and am still confused by it.
What's the time frame on all this ? Did they sell the car ages ago or yesterday?
It seems they have told you it's sold, are they now refusing to hand over the money or simply saying there might be a delay?
What's the time frame on all this ? Did they sell the car ages ago or yesterday?
It seems they have told you it's sold, are they now refusing to hand over the money or simply saying there might be a delay?
Rick1.8t said:
The accident is genuine and the money will follow
However, subject to any contractual term to the contrary (specifically re: finance hence my question), the Garage have sold the car, and owe the OP the cash. Simple as that. However, if you consider that once the vehicle has left their premises they should pay the OP, then the matter is simpler still. And why would they allow it to be taken without the finance being in place and paid?
I personally think a trip down there and sat in the office until you get paid may be in order. As alluded they probably have a cash flow issue and pay people 1/2 cars behind.
If they're lying about the car crash and intensive care then you're only going to find out if you go, a day sat outside waiting for the owner to come in may be worth it.
If you're technically minded record a conversation with the staff (pref in person) where they say that the owner is in intensive care and cannot therefore pay you. If they are lying then you may (and its a serious long shot) get the police to at least have a conversation with you about it. AFAIK 'can't pay cos we spent your money' is a civil matter and 'can pay you but have no intention to', may be construed as being fraudulent. I'm probably wrong there but it's what i'd try and do.
A local guy that I know had this happen with his Ferrari, had it on sale or return and then his mate spotted it 100 miles away. Dealer claimed it was there for a test drive but local guy sat in the owners office until he got paid in full for the car.
If they're lying about the car crash and intensive care then you're only going to find out if you go, a day sat outside waiting for the owner to come in may be worth it.
If you're technically minded record a conversation with the staff (pref in person) where they say that the owner is in intensive care and cannot therefore pay you. If they are lying then you may (and its a serious long shot) get the police to at least have a conversation with you about it. AFAIK 'can't pay cos we spent your money' is a civil matter and 'can pay you but have no intention to', may be construed as being fraudulent. I'm probably wrong there but it's what i'd try and do.
A local guy that I know had this happen with his Ferrari, had it on sale or return and then his mate spotted it 100 miles away. Dealer claimed it was there for a test drive but local guy sat in the owners office until he got paid in full for the car.
alspeed said:
Sorry OP, have read your post through several times and am still confused by it.
What's the time frame on all this ? Did they sell the car ages ago or yesterday?
It seems they have told you it's sold, are they now refusing to hand over the money or simply saying there might be a delay?
Sorry message a bit scrambled. What's the time frame on all this ? Did they sell the car ages ago or yesterday?
It seems they have told you it's sold, are they now refusing to hand over the money or simply saying there might be a delay?
They are saying they sold the car last week and had been waiting on the finance company paying them, this supposedly happened last week. We have now been phoning them since Friday asking for the cheque. The story today from the garage today is that the director was in a car crash and is in intensive care. On hearing this I did another search and found a note saying that he has been convicted of theft on Monday past and is now serving 12 community order and ordered to pay costs.
A colleague is going tomorrow to the garage and will threaten to stay until the money is transferred. Not sure if this will succeed and in the meantime I will get a lawyer onto them.
tp81 said:
On hearing this I did another search and found a note saying that he has been convicted of theft on Monday past and is now serving 12 community order and ordered to pay costs.
That bit does sound slightly worrying.Hopefully it works out as it should for you OP and the company doesn't 'wind up' putting you at the bottom of the receivers pile....
A bit of googling brought up this......(names removed for obvious reasons) OP I would be contacting the Police ASAP if I were you.......
Mr X, sole director of xxxxxxxxxxx Cars Limited, has today been sentenced by Manchester Crown Court (Minshull Street) to a 12month community order and ordered to pay costs and compensation.
This has been imposed due to Mr X pleading guilty to theft.
He was originally arrested and accused of both theft and fraud however the CPS settled for the 'theft' charge as he decided to plead guilty on the day in court.
The guilty plea was entered after evidence was put to Mr X that was difficult to argue against and he was threatened with disqualification as a director.
Mr X had attempted to maintain his innocence for over 8 months.
This all came about when Mr X took a car (AudiS3) to sell on a 'sale or return basis'.
The car was actually sold in February of 2014 however Mr X was still claiming in May of 2014 that he had not sold the car and should not pay any money.
Mr X pleaded guilty in January 2015 and has been sentenced today (7/9/15).
If you choose to deal with Mr X (and I wouldn't) then I recommend you do so with extreme caution. This man is now convicted of theft directly attributable to his dealings in the motor trade.
Mr X, sole director of xxxxxxxxxxx Cars Limited, has today been sentenced by Manchester Crown Court (Minshull Street) to a 12month community order and ordered to pay costs and compensation.
This has been imposed due to Mr X pleading guilty to theft.
He was originally arrested and accused of both theft and fraud however the CPS settled for the 'theft' charge as he decided to plead guilty on the day in court.
The guilty plea was entered after evidence was put to Mr X that was difficult to argue against and he was threatened with disqualification as a director.
Mr X had attempted to maintain his innocence for over 8 months.
This all came about when Mr X took a car (AudiS3) to sell on a 'sale or return basis'.
The car was actually sold in February of 2014 however Mr X was still claiming in May of 2014 that he had not sold the car and should not pay any money.
Mr X pleaded guilty in January 2015 and has been sentenced today (7/9/15).
If you choose to deal with Mr X (and I wouldn't) then I recommend you do so with extreme caution. This man is now convicted of theft directly attributable to his dealings in the motor trade.
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