RE: Lotus Elise 20th Anniversary vs. S1 Elise

[RobM77]

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

Nice comparison test; I'd be happier with either. The Elise remains my favourite road car that I've driven to date. My joint favourites are the S2 111S and the S2 SC, but there's very little in it between all the variants I've driven - they're all just utterly fantastic.

It's also nice to see you so close to where I live! Nice roads eh?

I believe it was my good self that sold you that (red?) 111S non?

No, but jolly close I think! I bought an Atlantic Blue MY04 from a dealership near London whose name escapes me now, but I think you may have worked there? I bought the car in 2004 or 2005 I think.

Wilsons Lotus, Chadwell Heath? I think you bought it from my colleage Noah? Bulky chap, heavily tanned and no hair. Him, not me

That was them, yes! It wasn't you who sold me the car and yes, I think it might have been Noah. My original test drive was with Bell and Colvill, and I live in Berkshire, but basically I just did a national search for the best condition 111S I could find I finally traded it in 3 years ago for a 2-Eleven at Bell and Colvill.

[L100NYY]

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

Nice comparison test; I'd be happier with either. The Elise remains my favourite road car that I've driven to date. My joint favourites are the S2 111S and the S2 SC, but there's very little in it between all the variants I've driven - they're all just utterly fantastic.

It's also nice to see you so close to where I live! Nice roads eh?

I believe it was my good self that sold you that (red?) 111S non?

No, but jolly close I think! I bought an Atlantic Blue MY04 from a dealership near London whose name escapes me now, but I think you may have worked there? I bought the car in 2004 or 2005 I think.

Wilsons Lotus, Chadwell Heath? I think you bought it from my colleague Noah? Bulky chap, heavily tanned and no hair. Him, not me

That was them, yes! It wasn't you who sold me the car and yes, I think it might have been Noah. My original test drive was with Bell and Colvill, and I live in Berkshire, but basically I just did a national search for the best condition 111S I could find I finally traded it in 3 years ago for a 2-Eleven at Bell and Colvill.

Jo's old car? 111S has always been one of my favourites of the S2 Elise, very best for me was the 135R but a close call. The k series is such a sweet engine and perfectly suited to the Elise imo

[RobM77]

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

L100NYY said:

RobM77 said:

Nice comparison test; I'd be happier with either. The Elise remains my favourite road car that I've driven to date. My joint favourites are the S2 111S and the S2 SC, but there's very little in it between all the variants I've driven - they're all just utterly fantastic.

It's also nice to see you so close to where I live! Nice roads eh?

I believe it was my good self that sold you that (red?) 111S non?

No, but jolly close I think! I bought an Atlantic Blue MY04 from a dealership near London whose name escapes me now, but I think you may have worked there? I bought the car in 2004 or 2005 I think.

Wilsons Lotus, Chadwell Heath? I think you bought it from my colleague Noah? Bulky chap, heavily tanned and no hair. Him, not me

That was them, yes! It wasn't you who sold me the car and yes, I think it might have been Noah. My original test drive was with Bell and Colvill, and I live in Berkshire, but basically I just did a national search for the best condition 111S I could find I finally traded it in 3 years ago for a 2-Eleven at Bell and Colvill.

Jo's old car? 111S has always been one of my favourites of the S2 Elise, very best for me was the 135R but a close call. The k series is such a sweet engine and perfectly suited to the Elise imo

Yes, that's right. I had a grand plan to give up racing and do track days in the 2-Eleven, but after three years I've ended up with another single seater! The 2-Eleven was only getting use on track in the latter two years of my ownership (like most of them it seems from their mileages), and I realised that for what the 2-Eleven was worth I could buy a recent Formula Renault, a trailer and pay for a rebuild on the FR, and of course I'd have a much, much faster car with a true mid engine layout, hard mounted engine and suspension etc. I do really miss owning a road going Lotus though, I must admit - they're wonderful cars.

To bring things back on topic, I also loved the k series Elises - the VVC engine had a lovely spread of torque well suited to road driving, it was a very light engine and of course it didn't have a servo on the brakes. I felt the S2 was the better handling car compared to the S1 and obviously was better suited to daily driving.

I felt that the initial 111R models had a very weird brake pedal action and heel and toe was very difficult due to the high throttle pedal, which is why I got a last of the line k series. The introduction of a lower DBW throttle a few years later sorted that out, and gradually the brake pedal got better too. The SC I feel was the pinnacle of the Toyota cars and it's probably one of those I'd look for in the future if I had another Lotus (or an Evora S!).

Where are you working now? Last time we spoke you were at another Lotus dealer up in Cambridgeshire I think.

[L100NYY]

I can certainly see the appeal of the single seater, I kind of did it the other way round and went from karting to trackdays and now having a sabbatical!

Yes, the pedal set up on early 111R and Exige variants was 'wrong' imo.......liveable but always a tad annoying. Had to have double jointed ankle to heel & toe in the darned things!

111S was a real sweet spot in the S2 range; lovely lightweight and relatively torquey feeling engine, non servo and fairly solid feeling pedal and with the right exhaust and induction they sounded great too. I always found on road performance was on a par with the later 111R but without the need to chase the second cam all the time.

Rather than sully the thread with my career pathe I'll ping you a u2u

[1Rb]

All of this talk must be whipping up s1 values... well they still look pretty good value compared to the nuts prices paid for 90s blue oval metal of recent.

[RobM77]

L100NYY said:

I can certainly see the appeal of the single seater, I kind of did it the other way round and went from karting to trackdays and now having a sabbatical!

Yes, the pedal set up on early 111R and Exige variants was 'wrong' imo.......liveable but always a tad annoying. Had to have double jointed ankle to heel & toe in the darned things!

111S was a real sweet spot in the S2 range; lovely lightweight and relatively torquey feeling engine, non servo and fairly solid feeling pedal and with the right exhaust and induction they sounded great too. I always found on road performance was on a par with the later 111R but without the need to chase the second cam all the time.

To my senses (and calculations, torque to weight etc) at least, the performance was identical, just spread out differently. The 111R's kick didn't happen till about 60mph in 2nd gear, so ultimately I found it frustrating on the road, whereas the 111S was perfect, although of course ultimately less exciting (if that's what you want from a car).

One thing I did feel was that the feedback and driving experience wasn't really diluted much over the years, but the NVH did get significantly lower, and that somehow made the feedback and driving experience stand out more. Some people seem to judge how much of a driver's car something is by the noise it makes, but personally I found the comfort of a 111S or 111R a far better place to enjoy (and notice) all that lovely feedback than the noisier and less comfortable cabin of an S1. I love both cars though - they're really special things.

L100NYY said:

Rather than sully the thread with my career pathe I'll ping you a u2u

ta!

[matsoc]

Incredible car, I loved the S1 and I soon or after I will get one again, maybe to sit together with the 1.6 CR I have no plan to sell. I reached the conslusion that an Elise must be in the garage, because I really missed it even when I was owning the V8 Vantage and the 911.

[bigmowley]

A bit of my garage



The GT4 is a great car but if I had to choose and taking value for money into account it comes last behind the Lotus and the Mini. Every garage should have a lightly tuned S1 111S as its permanent frame of reference. IMHO of course

[Kolbenkopp]

bencollins said:

Still the best sportscar and a worthy continuation of the sixties Elan. Less is always more.

Happy Birthday, Elise! Long may she live .

[Leggy]

Enjoyed my time with an S1, but now have the S2 SC. it's night and day better. The S1 roof was a PITA, many a time it was to just as easy to drive through the shower, as you'd get soaked fitting it anyway.
The relentless speed of the SC is amazing, and yet it's still fun and communicative at low speed.
Nothing compares.

[David-2pzjy]

40,000 Elise buyers can't be wrong :-)

[Vroom101]

smilo996 said:

The colour is a bit too German

Eh?! It's yellow. The majority of German cars I see on the road are either silver, light grey, mid grey or dark grey. Don't see too many bright yellow Audis out and about

Anyway, back to the article - great to see how the Elise has evolved over the years. Yep, its got a bit fatter (I'm not going to throw stones from my glass house), but it's still clearly a hell of a drive. I've never had the pleasure of having a go in one, but from what all the owners on here say I'd probably not want to get out if I did

Well done Lotus. I wonder what they'll be making in twenty years time?

[RobM77]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not at all, we all just have different tastes

[otolith]

I understand that feeling, the 911 did the same to me - objectively impressed, but left cold.

I'd just got used to h&t with the pedal layout of my 111R (basically, operating the accelerator with the side of the foot against the side of the pedal...) when I got it serviced at an independent specialist and he gave it back to me with the pedals adjusted correctly. God knows why Lotus set them up the way they did.

[angelicupstarts]

Tickle said:

angelicupstarts said:

Tickle said:

173kg is a considerable amount on extra weight in a car that's footprint is pretty much the same.

It's like carrying an additional 3 of me in my S1, although my S1 is a bit porkier than an early one on MMC's

you only weigh 57 kg ?? my god if i was that light weight my lotus would fly !

About 61kg at the moment, I can certainly feel the difference on the rare occasions I have a passenger in the Elise!

As a side note to my first comment, I don’t want to sound negative towards Lotus I really wish them all the luck in the world. They do still offer the Club Racer as a lighter option that incorporates all the necessities to meet modern safety regulations.

Lucky thing ... I top out at 106 kg ...it would be interesting to work out how much the extra 45 kg slows my car down ?

[SidewaysSi]

I almost bought an air cooled 911 a few years ago. Then I drove an Elise S1 and was sold. Haven't looked back.

[Ikemi]

Any chance of a 1920 x 1080 image of the two Elises driving away from the camera? It would be a perfect background for my office computer! I loved my S1, and I still love my K-Series S2 111S - I don't think I could ever part with it! As much as I'd love an Evora, it's not as though you can remove the roof on a warm Summer's afternoon and drive to the local country pub ...

I would say more, but busy at work!

[RobM77]

otolith said:

God knows why Lotus set them up the way they did.

I'd be the first to heap praise on Lotus, because I absolutely love all of their cars, but it is weird how the odd thing just seems to completely pass them by. Perhaps it's a result of a small company producing a car that things can slip through the net? I'm referring also to the driving position, the ergonomics and no doubt there are lots of other little idiosyncrasies that have long been present in their cars but which often don't seem to get fixed. Back on topic for H&T though, I actually contacted Lotus at Hethel about the issue and to ask if there was a fix; this was back in 2004/2005 when I was looking at buying a 111S or 111R. Hethel told me that none of their test drivers had problems heel and toeing. My guess is that with a small company you perhaps only have a handful of test drivers, whom I'm guessing have feet such that they can all H&T, and of course long arms and short legs so they think the driving position is acceptable. As I said above - brilliant cars, but little things like this do seem odd to me.

[Tickle]

angelicupstarts said:

Tickle said:

angelicupstarts said:

Tickle said:

173kg is a considerable amount on extra weight in a car that's footprint is pretty much the same.

It's like carrying an additional 3 of me in my S1, although my S1 is a bit porkier than an early one on MMC's

you only weigh 57 kg ?? my god if i was that light weight my lotus would fly !

About 61kg at the moment, I can certainly feel the difference on the rare occasions I have a passenger in the Elise!

As a side note to my first comment, I don’t want to sound negative towards Lotus I really wish them all the luck in the world. They do still offer the Club Racer as a lighter option that incorporates all the necessities to meet modern safety regulations.

Lucky thing ... I top out at 106 kg ...it would be interesting to work out how much the extra 45 kg slows my car down ?

153bhp @ 770kg = 199 bhp/ton
153bhp @ 815kg = 188 bhp/ton

(Power: Estimated Power of my car / Weight: SELOC for 111s)

Looks like I would be losing about 11 bhp/ton if I weighed 45kg more, not got a clue what that equates too in 0-60 though.

The un-sprung weight of my car may be a touch more as I am running victories on my 111s, the only lead wheels ever to be produced!

[angelicupstarts]

Tickle said:

angelicupstarts said:

Tickle said:

angelicupstarts said:

Tickle said:

173kg is a considerable amount on extra weight in a car that's footprint is pretty much the same.

It's like carrying an additional 3 of me in my S1, although my S1 is a bit porkier than an early one on MMC's

you only weigh 57 kg ?? my god if i was that light weight my lotus would fly !

About 61kg at the moment, I can certainly feel the difference on the rare occasions I have a passenger in the Elise!

As a side note to my first comment, I don’t want to sound negative towards Lotus I really wish them all the luck in the world. They do still offer the Club Racer as a lighter option that incorporates all the necessities to meet modern safety regulations.

Lucky thing ... I top out at 106 kg ...it would be interesting to work out how much the extra 45 kg slows my car down ?

153bhp @ 770kg = 199 bhp/ton
153bhp @ 815kg = 188 bhp/ton

(Power: Estimated Power of my car / Weight: SELOC for 111s)

Looks like I would be losing about 11 bhp/ton if I weighed 45kg more, not got a clue what that equates too in 0-60 though.

The un-sprung weight of my car may be a touch more as I am running victories on my 111s, the only lead wheels ever to be produced!

Just tried to work that out ..Im getting that id be almost half a second slower to 60mph ..so over a circuit with lots of twists and turns that could add up to a hefty amount at the end .
victories look good though !