RE: Lotus Exige Sport 350: Driven

[PaulJC84]

Has the build quality of Lotus not come on leaps and bounds since around 2010/11?

I love the new Exige and the Toyota engine would not put me off. Great that is is reliable and 350bhp would be more than enough for me. Evo rated the Elise with around 130bhp so 350bhp would be enough I bet.

I appreciate both the Cayman and the Exige. Would probably get an Exige first and then when I get older or fed up getting in and out would compromise and have a Cayman.

[otolith]

leglessAlex said:

Anyway, I'm not sure using that particular engine in the Huracan and R8 is a great example, yes it's a VAG engine but you wouldn't know it if you heard it start up or drive by, my word it sounds phenomenal. It is a very, very "special" engine, especially given that McLaren and Ferrari now have somewhat muted turbocharged lumps.

That's the point, though, judging the engine on its merits and not where it comes from.

[gavsdavs]

DonkeyApple said:

Yup. That's why I've raised them as two separate 'issues'. 1 the power 2 the brand.

The one thing that Gales and Bahar have understood is that to be viable they must sell to general sports car enthusiasts and not just extreme Lotus enthusiasts. That's why he has made all these changes to date and that is why he has been so far successful. Does the normal sports car enthusiast car about top trumps? Catagorically yes. Brand perception is everything.

I completely agree that the current outputs are more than enough in terms of usability and driving etc. But that's irrelevant. If the others keep adding more power then so will Lotus have to. But then the downsizing of competitors engines may hopefully mean that the BHP arms race is coming to an end. But if that is the case then top trumps will be fought on a different set of numbers. Maybe weight? Something Lotus should win all day on but they gave away that advantage with the Evora when they bet on BHP instead and it's now quite a heavy car.

The Manufacturer/brand of engine they're using is irrelevant. Lotus decided it was probably better for them to invest in their core strengths and take volume engines, gearboxes, etc off the shelf from someone else. Could have been ford, nissan, toyota, honda, mitsubishi, hell maybe even subaru. They chose toyota (some years ago, before the birth of the evora).

I am not a lotus owner but if I was, I wouldn't be buying one on its top trumps figures. It sounds like you consider that to be more important to car buyers than I do.

It is this:

DonkeyApple said:

If the others keep adding more power then so will Lotus have to.

That I disagree with.

[DonkeyApple]

gavsdavs said:

DonkeyApple said:

Yup. That's why I've raised them as two separate 'issues'. 1 the power 2 the brand.

The one thing that Gales and Bahar have understood is that to be viable they must sell to general sports car enthusiasts and not just extreme Lotus enthusiasts. That's why he has made all these changes to date and that is why he has been so far successful. Does the normal sports car enthusiast car about top trumps? Catagorically yes. Brand perception is everything.

I completely agree that the current outputs are more than enough in terms of usability and driving etc. But that's irrelevant. If the others keep adding more power then so will Lotus have to. But then the downsizing of competitors engines may hopefully mean that the BHP arms race is coming to an end. But if that is the case then top trumps will be fought on a different set of numbers. Maybe weight? Something Lotus should win all day on but they gave away that advantage with the Evora when they bet on BHP instead and it's now quite a heavy car.

The Manufacturer/brand of engine they're using is irrelevant. Lotus decided it was probably better for them to invest in their core strengths and take volume engines, gearboxes, etc off the shelf from someone else. Could have been ford, nissan, toyota, honda, mitsubishi, hell maybe even subaru. They chose toyota (some years ago, before the birth of the evora).

I am not a lotus owner but if I was, I wouldn't be buying one on its top trumps figures. It sounds like you consider that to be more important to car buyers than I do.

It is this:

DonkeyApple said:

If the others keep adding more power then so will Lotus have to.

That I disagree with.

The fact that all mainstream manufacturers compete with marketing based around sets of figures for their sector, I'm afraid proves the exact point that top trumps is a very serious element of selling cars. Even more so now you can't drape a pair of naked tits over a bonnet.

And the fact that at different price points different brand perceptions are also vital is another bit of marketing science that cannot be discounted. You don't see Rolls shouting about their BMW underpinnings, nor Porsche their Audi underpinnings on the SUVs, or Astons of old their Jag parts etc. You do see negativity towards these factors though.

Gales is moving the Evora upmarket and moving the price up. Each move must be supported by brand values and also brand perception.

[bencollins]

Lotus build cars in a high tech factory to very high standards, they make reliable cars and thus not boosted to an inch of their life, why would any one want them to be? 100hp/l is plenty.
Watch this video and tell me there are better small volume factories than this? (Skip the first five minutes of claptrap)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWOGAL5XqE8

[DonkeyApple]

bencollins said:

Lotus build cars in a high tech factory to very high standards, they make reliable cars and thus not boosted to an inch of their life, why would any one want them to be? 100hp/l is plenty.
Watch this video and tell me there are better small volume factories than this? (Skip the first five minutes of claptrap)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWOGAL5XqE8

But that is missing the point entirely. If 'Plenty' or 'enough' were practices that sold ever increasing car volumes then it's no issue but we know catagorically that it's not.

And that factory needs a lot more cars being bought from it to keep the lights in than they are currently building and where do you think those sales are going to come from? Magically increasing the size of the specialist/track car sector or by doing what Gaels has been doing and making the Evora ever more mainstream acceptable while trying to maintain brand values as much as possible (note that they've had to sacrifice 'add lightness' in order to achieve this).

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

(note that they've had to sacrifice 'add lightness' in order to achieve this).

Not sure about that, JMG has made more effort to cut weight than anyone at Lotus has for a long time. The Evora 400 and Exige Sport 350 are lighter than their predecessors. The Evora is still not outstandingly light for what it is, but that's not a recent thing.

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

DonkeyApple said:

(note that they've had to sacrifice 'add lightness' in order to achieve this).

Not sure about that, JMG has made more effort to cut weight than anyone at Lotus has for a long time. The Evora 400 and Exige Sport 350 are lighter than their predecessors. The Evora is still not outstandingly light for what it is, but that's not a recent thing.

Yes. Chasing BHP adds a lot of weight as does having to cut corners financially. Arguably they've been able to shave some of the weight because they've been able to throw some much needed money at the cars. But it's the fact that even after managing to shave 20kg off it is still apparently 10kg heavier than the Cayman.

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

Yes. Chasing BHP adds a lot of weight as does having to cut corners financially. Arguably they've been able to shave some of the weight because they've been able to throw some much needed money at the cars. But it's the fact that even after managing to shave 20kg off it is still apparently 10kg heavier than the Cayman.

Or 35kg lighter than the Porsche it is actually comparable to. Which is not enough.

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

DonkeyApple said:

Yes. Chasing BHP adds a lot of weight as does having to cut corners financially. Arguably they've been able to shave some of the weight because they've been able to throw some much needed money at the cars. But it's the fact that even after managing to shave 20kg off it is still apparently 10kg heavier than the Cayman.

Or 35kg lighter than the Porsche it is actually comparable to. Which is not enough.

It would be nice if the media did compare properly. Sadly it seems to be more based around price I guess?

The trouble here is that as Lotus have had to add weight as they've added power so the more dull mainstream firms have been able to shed weight and we now find ourselves in the rather depressing situation that arguably, in regards to the halo/mainstream model), they've not only been removing lightness but that the traditional gap between them and the chunky mass manufactured utility sports cars has been rather heavily squeezed.

[suffolk009]

bencollins said:

Lotus build cars in a high tech factory to very high standards, they make reliable cars and thus not boosted to an inch of their life, why would any one want them to be? 100hp/l is plenty.
Watch this video and tell me there are better small volume factories than this? (Skip the first five minutes of claptrap)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWOGAL5XqE8

I did a factory tour there c.18 months ago. Great day out, stupid cheap, and I recommend it to anyone.

I don't think the chassis are made in Hethel, iirc they're made off site by another company who (again iirc) are owned by lotus.

The factory is indeed splendid. Perhaps worth mentioning that the new half of the production buildings were built and paid for with Vauxhall money to meet their standards during the VX220 project years.

The only facility I can think of that beats it is McLaren's automotive building.

[otolith]

The gap is still there between Elise/Boxster and Exige/Cayman, and present but not large enough between Evora/911.

The challenge is maintaining or increasing the weight differentials while improving the perceived quality and usability and not losing the character of the cars.

I think JMG is facing that challenge head on, but of course it has to be incremental, he can't go down the five car vapourware route.

[gavsdavs]

DonkeyApple said:

But that is missing the point entirely. If 'Plenty' or 'enough' were practices that sold ever increasing car volumes then it's no issue but we know catagorically that it's not.

Again - power is not the only aspect manufacturers want to market their cars on. Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ - 2 litre, 200bhp, sold for it's driving characteristics, not it's BHP.

Top trumps players say "not powerful enought for me". OWNERS say "Outright power is not what it's about, dummy"

I don't agree that Price -vs- headline power figures is the only thing vehicles compete for sales on.

[DonkeyApple]

gavsdavs said:

DonkeyApple said:

But that is missing the point entirely. If 'Plenty' or 'enough' were practices that sold ever increasing car volumes then it's no issue but we know catagorically that it's not.

Again - power is not the only aspect manufacturers want to market their cars on. Toyota GT-86/Subaru BRZ - 2 litre, 200bhp, sold for it's driving characteristics, not it's BHP.

Top trumps players say "not powerful enought for me". OWNERS say "Outright power is not what it's about, dummy"

I don't agree that Price -vs- headline power figures is the only thing vehicles compete for sales on.

Absolutely right and I have already stated exactly that. It is one of many numerical metrics used by vendors depending on what they are selling and to whom.

So if you are selling a small family car the metrics you focus on are probably predominantly to do with co2 emissions and cost.

With Lotus they have spent the last 20 odd years using a set of marketing metrics that has never garnered them any huge uplift in sales. Would you not agree that in terms of their mainstream car that their shift to using more traditional and mainstream metrics in recent years has lead to an increase in sales? It is certainly very clear that from the outset of the Evora they wanted a bigger engine and wanted to go marketing with bigger performance numbers. I think that is one of the single biggest cultural changes within Lotus since they ended the Esprit.

Re the price metric. It is obviously immensely powerful or else prime, high cost marketing space would be utilised for announcing a different message.

Look at their own home page. The first detail that they announce about the Evora is its price and in bold.

Then look at the Evora page and slap bang, taking core position, so the most important sales element are 4 top trump metrics.

At the same time the first sentence instructs that it is the fastest Lotus and that it is easy to get in and out of.

And the prime feature is the power, followed by the interior and chassis is deemed the third most important message to get across to potential customers

While in wonderful contrast, you look at the cheapest Lotus product and their first pitch point after the price (in bold again) is how low it's co2 is. They know what top trump metric is key for that product. .

I'm afraid, regardless of how much people like the cars or how many they own everything is in black and white from the company itself as to what they know is best for selling to mainstream customers.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 13th January 14:51

[Ozzie Osmond]

Would a V8 hand-built by Colin Chapman himself make the Evora sell? No. The car was a wrong 'un from day one. Exige V6 has its own issues as an astounding performance machine for wealthy limbo-dancers.

I agree that brand perception has faded. A tiny handful of part-time dealers, no genuinely new product, complete and very public failure of the much-trumpeted "five new cars in five years". And it doesn't help at all that the Lotus brand has been reduced to limping round at the back of F1 races.

Exige V6 is a stunning car for the tiny number of customers who want one. Mr Gales needs more customers than those.

[blueg33]

In what way is the evora a wrong un? Great to drive, looks exotic, comfortable, etc

[Zyp]

Handful of part time dealers?
There's been a few new ones opened up recently, and the new one in Nottingham is beginning to look fantastic.
Will be the biggest in Europe with excellent facilities.

With the dealers they already have, they have presence in all parts of the country now.

http://centrallotus.com/?page_id=1117

[Zyp]

18 dealers plus a lot of service centres.

Not bad for a taxi company.