RE: Has turbocharging ruined the 911
Discussion
daveco said:
I'd take either in a heart beat but to me the 964 looks very dated
This 911 review should be shouting from the roof-tops that this car is not only one of the best looking but one of the best drives out there.
It's not and this should be worrying as other reviews of the 911.2 are also luke-warm.
I wonder if the competition finally dulled the 911's glow.
Articles like this are not doing Porsche any favours right now.
kambites said:
Article said:
the fact automatic downshift rev matching is now compulsory in all but the default mode. Want Sport or Sport Plus with sharper throttle and stiffer engine mounts? Forget heel'n'toe downshifts then; the car does it for you.
That is really, really stupid. Why design a car whose hardware is capable of all this customisation, then turn it off in software. I can understand having default settings that adjust everything to one of a few pre-set choices, but why not have some deeper menu options which allow everything to be calibrated manually? Overall it sounds much as expected. More faster, more efficient, more flexible,... and for me at least utterly devoid of any sort of appeal. It was always going to happen and I'm sure it was the right thing to do from a commercial standpoint; the days when it was viable to aim a mass-market car like the 911 at driving enthusiasts are long gone.
Would be a bit surprised though as Porsche can afford to just make the clutch bigger or thicker...
nickfrog said:
I have to agree - it's getting a bit boring. You really wonder why some people actually hate anything new...
Me too, the pious purists who have such an attuned pallette when it comes to appreciating how a car drives, that some change that would be fairly imperceptible to the majority of owners, is decried as a reason why this car is, in fact one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. I honestly believe that it is the most pompous type of showboating and is pretty transparent as such. daveco said:
From a design perspective I think this is the best looking 911 since the wide body 993.
Would still be top of my list if I had the money, turbocharged or not.
In photos it's a good looking car. In the the flesh the 991 seems massive though, and looks a bit silly on the road. In reality it's "only" 8" longer than a 964, and maybe a couple wider, but there's no real delicacy to it anymore.. It dwarfs a Focus, and I don't find that attractive. Would still be top of my list if I had the money, turbocharged or not.
The turbo engine wouldn't bother me as the n/a engines have been dull for years now. The 3.8 991 I drove sounded offensive, in a bad way. A crap sound made loud. From what I've heard the new turbo sounds more like the 3.2s, which is a lovely sound. I dare say the sports exhaust ruins it (Porsche never get this right) but hey, as long as it's louder right... The stuff written about the manual box rev matching would entirely put me off though - at that point you know an idiot has been involved in the design of your car, and I hate idiots and refuse to tolerate them. A line of code and a touch-screen menu? Nah, f
k em. Genius. 
Personally I prefer my 993 shape to the 964 which has ugly bumpers in my opinion. As a retro enthusiast I also prefer the old air cooled era. Saying that having driven a modern 911 turbo they are fabulous cars and I'd love one if I had the money but in addition to my 993 not to replace it.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The fact of the matter is Porsche is a luxury brand like LV or Prada etc. People who buy them are thinking about it in terms of how it will look an feel not always how it will feel to drive. Having a fast car is great but it does not mean you have to or want to go fast etc. Also more luxury buyers (those with pots of cash a little need for finance) will prefer a product that they can drive in a relaxed fashion an not have to wrestle with in the bends etc.As with most things we as a people do not want to get better at using them we want them to be easier for us. So as with MS Dos back in the 80s we then had windows with a mouse and now we have touch screens with predictive text or we just talk into the device. Porsche are doing the same its what customers (those with cash) want, what driving enthusiasts want is less of a concern unless they also happen to have 100k to spend.
Porsche will always produce halo models like the GT3RS (which will one day be turbo charged or even a hybrid) and can even make a loss on them (but it won't) because it will as a result sell 10x as many 4x4 and smaller cars as the brand rubs off.
An its not a bad thing at all porsche will continue to get cash rolling in an be able to keep up with the new rules and at the same time be able to develop ever faster GT3 models which will of course also become easier to drive etc but again it matters not as porsche is thinking of those who will buy the product not thoes who will look at it in magazines.
This will appeal to the bulk of 'new 911 buyers'
Luckily Porsche still have an eye on their old die-hard customer base who have a bit of cash to splash too....
http://www.total911.com/porsche-911-r-to-be-unveil...
Luckily Porsche still have an eye on their old die-hard customer base who have a bit of cash to splash too....
http://www.total911.com/porsche-911-r-to-be-unveil...
I think one of the problems with Porsche's current offering is that the people who buy them, buy them despite the way they drive, not because of the way they drive.
So Porsche has to produce them and sell them, to fund the stuff that the press, the critics, the enthusiasts and the forums want. And then the people in the forums refuse to buy them, because of the cost, and the brand image.
Turbos are part of the automotive landscape nowadays: this is not because of Porsche or VAG, it's because of regulation. The question is, can Porsche or anyone else, do a good turbo engine? And it seems to me, that they can. Motoring Life - as we know it - is not over yet.
So Porsche has to produce them and sell them, to fund the stuff that the press, the critics, the enthusiasts and the forums want. And then the people in the forums refuse to buy them, because of the cost, and the brand image.
Turbos are part of the automotive landscape nowadays: this is not because of Porsche or VAG, it's because of regulation. The question is, can Porsche or anyone else, do a good turbo engine? And it seems to me, that they can. Motoring Life - as we know it - is not over yet.
nickfrog said:
T-bagger said:
Another dull thread about how new cars are too ugly/heavy/turbocharged/safe/expensive/advanced etc.
Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
I have to agree - it's getting a bit boring. You really wonder why some people actually hate anything new...Pistonheads: hating new stuff matters.....
New cars are stiffer in the chassis than they used to be, better damped, tyres are better, power outputs are high, engines are more driveable, economy is vastly better, all those last three are available together, nvh levels are lower, ergonomics have improved and cars are much more affordable (someone once posted on here what a 3 series cost many years ago, and accounting for inflation it was vastly more than now, as was the 5 series, C Class, E Class etc). Those are all good things. However, I/we reserve the right to moan about laggy drive by wire throttles, a lack of interaction from auto blip and automatic gearboxes, electric power steering with no feel, huge low profile tyres ruining ride, clutch delay valves, over servoed brakes etc.
If you're Joe Average, i.e. not that interested in driving and want to own a car that feels fast without demanding any driver attention or skill, whilst simultaneously cossetting you like an Audi A8 does and getting you admiring glances at the golf club, then new cars are invariably better than older ones in every way. As a PHer and car enthusiast though, I only feel they're better in some ways and worse in others. I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing some features of older cars from the 993/E36 era had been retained to go with the advances in technology, such as proper throttle response, good ride and handling and genuine driver interaction. Sure, Lotus provide these things, but it's easy to forget that in years past so did Porsche, and even makers of ordinary everyday cars such as BMW etc. Like many people, I just wish I could buy a daily driver with the refinement of my E90 but the interaction of my E36, a sports car with the refinement of a new Boxster but the interaction of a 944 and a hatchback with the refinement and performance of a 208 GTi with the driver pleasure of a 205 GTi. Some things are mutually exclusive, such as tractable engines and throttle response (DBW and clever ECUs are all part of that you see, you can't have one without the other), but other things, such as low nvh, are not.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 13th January 09:28
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff