RE: Skoda Octavia vRS Revo Technik: Driven
Discussion
ORD said:
Thank you. All makes sense to me.
But others would rather trust a rolling road figure that is generated by people trying to sell them a re-map.
Personally I have no reason to doubt that AER know's what he/she is talking about when it comes to the technical side of things as he/she has provided enough evidence to show as such. Unfortunately they have also provided enough evidence to show that they are also arrogant, petty and juvenile and far from being the professional that they self proclaim to be and it's because of this that no matter how much of their valuable knowledge they decide to share they will never be able to gain the respect that the other very helpful respectful professionals who don't have to resort to such actions command.But others would rather trust a rolling road figure that is generated by people trying to sell them a re-map.
ORD said:
I've literally no idea what you're talking about now. You seem to have taken offence but it's more to do with you than him.
I can quite happily copy the quotes from AER to show what I mean or you can just re-read his posts, it's clear to see really and I'm not the only person to pick up on it so it's hardly something that say's anything about me is it?ORD said:
thebraketester said:
My car has been on RR not associated with a tuning company. What were they trying to sell me?
Customer satisfaction. Would you have been pleased with a low number? They are largely making up the number, so why not make it one the customer will like?And yes, it was low (-10bhp) compared to what I thought so your argument is invalid.
So AER using your calculations.
I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
PS your previous info on the previous page is good and correct but doesn't answer how we can calculate an engines power without actually testing it.
Just that elements can effect it.
I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
PS your previous info on the previous page is good and correct but doesn't answer how we can calculate an engines power without actually testing it.
Just that elements can effect it.
Edited by xjay1337 on Saturday 27th February 17:14
thebraketester said:
So if a car has a list of 230bhp and it makes 232bhp on a rolling road.... which figure is bulls
t... or are they both?
Rolling road figure is bullst... or are they both?t but happens to be close to real power. If you take one measure of power (and an inaccurate one at that) and then use a bunch of untested assumptions to come up with bhp, you are as likely to get it very wrong as to get it right. Stopped clocks are right twice a day.xjay1337 said:
So AER using your calculations.
I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
PS your previous info on the previous page is good and correct but doesn't answer how we can calculate an engines power without actually testing it.
Just that elements can effect it.
PH mode/I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
PS your previous info on the previous page is good and correct but doesn't answer how we can calculate an engines power without actually testing it.
Just that elements can effect it.
Edited by xjay1337 on Saturday 27th February 17:14
I've done the calculations. The answer is 'Not enough to make you feel better about driving a derv'.
/PH mode
ORD said:
I'm afraid I couldn't calculate my way out of a soggy paper bag with a hole on it. AER might be able to, but I wouldn't even know where to start!
I'll guess, though. 2 litre diesel at 4500rpm? Likely to be somewhat past peak power. 170bhp?
At 2bar of boost?I'll guess, though. 2 litre diesel at 4500rpm? Likely to be somewhat past peak power. 170bhp?
Id expect at least 100bhp per litre.
ORD said:
I'm afraid I couldn't calculate my way out of a soggy paper bag with a hole on it. AER might be able to, but I wouldn't even know where to start!
I'll guess, though. 2 litre diesel at 4500rpm? Likely to be somewhat past peak power. 170bhp?
I have a dyno of 250, and I run 14 second quarter miles.. roughly the same time as a Cayman S (to which I do have video proof). My power plateaus and holds 250 from 3800 to just shy of 5k. I'll guess, though. 2 litre diesel at 4500rpm? Likely to be somewhat past peak power. 170bhp?
The only reason I ask is because I would like to ask AER with his "experience and knowledge" (using that term non offensively/sarcastically) if that is BS also :-)
I've logged on to this site for the first time in years to add to this debate, probably daft but, here goes.
Point 1: On the quality of RevoT's power data
RevoT at least show a power graph from an unmodified car with 210hp at the wheel horse power.
Given that the car is officially 217hp and I would have expected transmission losses of 12%ish then the standard car is showing about 20hp high, maybe about 235hp at the motor.
Now Skoda power figures are on 95 Ron not Shell V Power also if you go to a USA based tuner of the EA888 motor, even on their fuel they will get 220hp ish for a standard car.
This suggests the standard motor could easily be throwing 230 to 240hp unmodifed on decent fuel and so RevoT's power measures look to be fairly accurate.
What I can't say is for how long you could get 400hp on a continued power run out of the motor, a standard car should run 220hp for a long time. The RevoT build only has to get there for a couple of seconds to be recorded. That, I suspect is the difference is, continuous long power runs are likely to be somewhat less then this peak.
Point 2: How the hell does 400hp help?
I've owned a Mk3 Octavia Vrs petrol, manual for the last 2 years and 30,000 miles.
For the record I get about 38 mpg over a tank of fuel and I have had it up to 130mph according to my sat nav's peak speed recording, it was still accelerating quite well at that point, so 150mph+ from a standard car is very possible.
The car really doesn't need any more power than it has. I have peak torque from 1500 rpm and over 200hp from about 4000 to 6000rpm.
The brakes are impressive and the handing is dull understeer on the limit, but the limit is so high that you have to be doing silly speeds to get there on a public road.
On my 30 mile commute to work I can use maximum acceleration at a point where the traction control light isn't flickering or I'm not heading well over the speed limit, for less than half a mile of that journey.
I'm using Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres, if you are heavy on the throttle, 1st gear is wheel spin (traction control is fairly soft), 2nd gear is traction control flicker, 3rd gear and I'm up to 70 mph at 4750rpm.
The Continentals that it came with had better traction, but I got through those in 15,000 miles and the Goodyears are lasting much better.
Imagine I have 400hp rather than 230hp, I would be spinning the wheels in second and have traction control lit up in 3rd. I can't get all the power on to the road till I'm doing almost 100mph. The power is barely usable on a track day let alone a public road. For the UK's roads I could occasionally use an extra 50hp, but never an extra 150hp.
It is a very good all round car and one that I will keep for years to come, but not one in which 400hp has any place other than bragging rights and it is definitely, not a track day car. I have a £350 Puma for that.
Point 1: On the quality of RevoT's power data
RevoT at least show a power graph from an unmodified car with 210hp at the wheel horse power.
Given that the car is officially 217hp and I would have expected transmission losses of 12%ish then the standard car is showing about 20hp high, maybe about 235hp at the motor.
Now Skoda power figures are on 95 Ron not Shell V Power also if you go to a USA based tuner of the EA888 motor, even on their fuel they will get 220hp ish for a standard car.
This suggests the standard motor could easily be throwing 230 to 240hp unmodifed on decent fuel and so RevoT's power measures look to be fairly accurate.
What I can't say is for how long you could get 400hp on a continued power run out of the motor, a standard car should run 220hp for a long time. The RevoT build only has to get there for a couple of seconds to be recorded. That, I suspect is the difference is, continuous long power runs are likely to be somewhat less then this peak.
Point 2: How the hell does 400hp help?
I've owned a Mk3 Octavia Vrs petrol, manual for the last 2 years and 30,000 miles.
For the record I get about 38 mpg over a tank of fuel and I have had it up to 130mph according to my sat nav's peak speed recording, it was still accelerating quite well at that point, so 150mph+ from a standard car is very possible.
The car really doesn't need any more power than it has. I have peak torque from 1500 rpm and over 200hp from about 4000 to 6000rpm.
The brakes are impressive and the handing is dull understeer on the limit, but the limit is so high that you have to be doing silly speeds to get there on a public road.
On my 30 mile commute to work I can use maximum acceleration at a point where the traction control light isn't flickering or I'm not heading well over the speed limit, for less than half a mile of that journey.
I'm using Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres, if you are heavy on the throttle, 1st gear is wheel spin (traction control is fairly soft), 2nd gear is traction control flicker, 3rd gear and I'm up to 70 mph at 4750rpm.
The Continentals that it came with had better traction, but I got through those in 15,000 miles and the Goodyears are lasting much better.
Imagine I have 400hp rather than 230hp, I would be spinning the wheels in second and have traction control lit up in 3rd. I can't get all the power on to the road till I'm doing almost 100mph. The power is barely usable on a track day let alone a public road. For the UK's roads I could occasionally use an extra 50hp, but never an extra 150hp.
It is a very good all round car and one that I will keep for years to come, but not one in which 400hp has any place other than bragging rights and it is definitely, not a track day car. I have a £350 Puma for that.
Edited by JPBailey on Sunday 28th February 02:13
Edited by JPBailey on Sunday 28th February 02:16
Edited by Sloth In A Bowl on Monday 29th February 08:43
xjay1337 said:
So AER using your calculations.
I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
Not nearly enough information to calculate anything at all. Diesel (CI) engines can run at a much wider range of conditions than SI engines so you will have to define a few more parameters. They are not knock-limited like gasoline engines but they don't get anywhere near stoichiometric without belching soot. If I make some assumptions you could see north of 300hp at that speed and boost, but in reality you won't get anywhere close to that without some serious modifications to compression ratio, fuel pressure and probably structure. Most definitely your intercooler will be enormous or ineffective.I have a 2.0 TDI with a GTB2260 at 33psi of boost.
How much power should I make at 4500 rpm?
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