RE: BMW M2: Review
Discussion
Interestingly, the M2 'manual' rev-matches on both downshifts and UPshifts...
Just read this on road & track:
"When you turn off automatic rev matching on the manual M2, you lose electronic stability control. If you order an M2 and have a brain, you want the standard manual transmission. If you cannot drive a stick smoothly and refuse to learn a new skill, the M2 will automatically rev-match shifts for you. It automatically blips the throttle or adjusts engine speed for smooth operation on both upshifts and downshifts.
"This isn't a system per se, more a software function made possible by the advent of electronic throttles. Nor is it new; a similar function was first sold in America on the Nissan 370Z. Most carmakers who sell this kind of thing let you disengage it independent of a car's other systems. BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
"Which means that, if you like manual transmissions because they're entertaining, and if you find them entertaining in part because they represent a developed skill, well, you don't get to exercise that skill unless you drive around all the time without an electronic safety net mandated on all new cars by the government and specifically designed to keep you from backing the car into a ditch. A system that is currently so well-developed and permissive that most road drivers are better off with it on—enthusiasts included.
"A few journalists were moaning that the feature was a quiet attempt to undermine the manual transmission in the American market. Americans have a history of ordering their BMW performance cars with manuals despite the availability of competent automatics and despite the chagrin of the engineers designing the cars. (In Germany, where performance metrics reign, manuals are seen as anachronism. Recall the E60-chassis M5, a model that initially wasn't going to be offered with a clutch pedal. Enthusiasts griped, and at the last minute, a six-speed manual was developed and certified for our market. A fact that still sets the Bavarians to grumbling.) The whole thing, they say, is a scam to fade the skill base and, in the long run, kill the technology.
"The hyperbolic Internet headline for this is BMW WANTS TO KILL THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION—OR YOU. (Wait a few weeks after this story runs and Google those words. Someone will hit on them. All it takes is time.) That's gibberish, of course. But this is stupid, and a software update away from being right. Someone should fix it."
Couldn't put it better myself.
Anyone know if this thing fakes its engine sound too? No mention in the article, but it was a touch sycophantic...
It does sound like an awesome car - albeit one undermined by some corporate/marketing stupidity.
Just read this on road & track:
"When you turn off automatic rev matching on the manual M2, you lose electronic stability control. If you order an M2 and have a brain, you want the standard manual transmission. If you cannot drive a stick smoothly and refuse to learn a new skill, the M2 will automatically rev-match shifts for you. It automatically blips the throttle or adjusts engine speed for smooth operation on both upshifts and downshifts.
"This isn't a system per se, more a software function made possible by the advent of electronic throttles. Nor is it new; a similar function was first sold in America on the Nissan 370Z. Most carmakers who sell this kind of thing let you disengage it independent of a car's other systems. BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
"Which means that, if you like manual transmissions because they're entertaining, and if you find them entertaining in part because they represent a developed skill, well, you don't get to exercise that skill unless you drive around all the time without an electronic safety net mandated on all new cars by the government and specifically designed to keep you from backing the car into a ditch. A system that is currently so well-developed and permissive that most road drivers are better off with it on—enthusiasts included.
"A few journalists were moaning that the feature was a quiet attempt to undermine the manual transmission in the American market. Americans have a history of ordering their BMW performance cars with manuals despite the availability of competent automatics and despite the chagrin of the engineers designing the cars. (In Germany, where performance metrics reign, manuals are seen as anachronism. Recall the E60-chassis M5, a model that initially wasn't going to be offered with a clutch pedal. Enthusiasts griped, and at the last minute, a six-speed manual was developed and certified for our market. A fact that still sets the Bavarians to grumbling.) The whole thing, they say, is a scam to fade the skill base and, in the long run, kill the technology.
"The hyperbolic Internet headline for this is BMW WANTS TO KILL THE MANUAL TRANSMISSION—OR YOU. (Wait a few weeks after this story runs and Google those words. Someone will hit on them. All it takes is time.) That's gibberish, of course. But this is stupid, and a software update away from being right. Someone should fix it."
Couldn't put it better myself.
Anyone know if this thing fakes its engine sound too? No mention in the article, but it was a touch sycophantic...
It does sound like an awesome car - albeit one undermined by some corporate/marketing stupidity.
This article reads like a press release from BMW. I don't see a single criticism of the car.
Back in the real world, I'm curious to know how far apart this is from an 235i. There's some engine tuning (but basically the same engine), the M-Diff and some wider bodywork?
Don't get me wrong, I think it is probably a great car and the M-diff along probably makes a huge difference as a driver's car. But how many times have you heard people say that an E46 330i is NOT 95% of the equivelent M3. The M-car is better in a tangible way because... I'm trying to work out if the M-Magic still applies between 235i and M2.
Back in the real world, I'm curious to know how far apart this is from an 235i. There's some engine tuning (but basically the same engine), the M-Diff and some wider bodywork?
Don't get me wrong, I think it is probably a great car and the M-diff along probably makes a huge difference as a driver's car. But how many times have you heard people say that an E46 330i is NOT 95% of the equivelent M3. The M-car is better in a tangible way because... I'm trying to work out if the M-Magic still applies between 235i and M2.
Lovely looking machine, but personally I prefer the more pugnacious style of the 1M.
As for the drive, frankly I have a hard time trusting anything written in this review. No offence intended, but this is the type of thing I could have written based on a conversation with a salesman. I'm sure it is indeed a fantastic steed, but this just seems like disingenuous journalism.
Sorry. Constructive criticism and all that. I blame BMW.
As for the drive, frankly I have a hard time trusting anything written in this review. No offence intended, but this is the type of thing I could have written based on a conversation with a salesman. I'm sure it is indeed a fantastic steed, but this just seems like disingenuous journalism.
Sorry. Constructive criticism and all that. I blame BMW.
kambites said:
NDNDNDND said:
BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
There was me being impressed with BMW for still offering a manual option then they go and ruin it by doing this. 
I like it, nice car.
NDNDNDND said:
BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
I've not knowingly driven a car that rev matches. What happens if you try to match the revs yourself whilst the system is engaged? Surely if you've matched the revs yourself with the throttle there is no need for the system to do anything?kambites said:
NDNDNDND said:
BMW has chosen to leave rev-matching on unless you fully disengage the car's electronic stability control.
There was me being impressed with BMW for still offering a manual option then they go and ruin it by doing this. On the other hand, if you really don't like rev matching, it would be very annoying having to switch the esc off every time you start the car, and given the level of user configuration available elsewhere in the range it does seem odd not to allow rev matching to be switched off independently of other settings?
Mine would still be a manual, in blue.
Toltec said:
kambites said:
If it drives as much better than the M4 as the article implies, why does it matter that it weighs the same?
Who are you and what have you done with the real kambites? Same with turbocharging really. I have no fundamental dislike of seeing "turbocharged" written on a piece of paper; it's those pesky laws of physics which make it impossible to give crisp throttle response with a simple turbocharged engine that I dislike. If these new hypercars with torque-fill hybrids get around that, the fact that they're turbocharged wouldn't put me off getting one (if I could ever afford it).
Edited by kambites on Thursday 18th February 15:16
Johnnytheboy said:
Toltec said:
kambites said:
If it drives as much better than the M4 as the article implies, why does it matter that it weighs the same?
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