RE: Jaguar F-Type R AWD: Review

[oldtimer2]

unrepentant said:

oldtimer2 said:

FYI global annual sales of the F-type were a shade under 12,000 units for the past two calendar years. Total Jaguar sales were only 84,000 units last year and 81,500 units in 2014. This is unsustainably small. The huge product push marked by the launch of XE, XF and F-Pace is remarkable for both its speed, ambition and the confidence in the brand that is held by its new shareholder, Tata - specifically Rajan Tata who is believed to be big fan of the brand.

Did you read that last bit from a 2008 press release?

No idea who Rajan Tata is but Ratan Tata who was chairman of TATA retired more than 3 years ago. It was no secret that he was a huge fan of the brand and that was a driver behind TATA's purchase of JLR 8 years ago. So hardly a "new shareholder". Under TATA F-Type, F-Pace, XE, new XF, Evoque, L405 RR, L494 RRS, Discovery Sport and new Discovery 5 have all been developed.

That was my spelling mistake! And it probably must have come from an earlier press release when Tata acquired Jaguar and Land Rover from Ford. I described Tata as the "new" shareholder because they bought the company from the "old" shareholder, Ford. His arrival and influence, especially enabling the people inside JLR to express themselves through the outstanding products that are now emerging, has been wholly beneficial and, I think, the salvation of the Jaguar brand. Although he has retired, he still appears in photograpghs of some company events here in the UK so I imagine he is keeping an eye on his investment.

[oldtimer2]

unsprung said:

oldtimer2 said:

A few weeks ago someone mentioned that Jaguar had recruited engineers who had worked on the McClaren P1; and do not forget that the CX-75 was a a very high performance hybrid based on a 1.5 litre engine.

My interest is piqued. And, coincidentally, last week a fun video review of the XJ220 appeared. Just one of many historical highlights that the brand has in its foundation, as it looks to the future.

oldtimer2 said:

Total Jaguar sales were only 84,000 units last year and 81,500 units in 2014. This is unsustainably small. The huge product push marked by the launch of XE, XF and F-Pace is remarkable for both its speed, ambition and the confidence in the brand that is held by its new shareholder, Tata - specifically Rajan Tata who is believed to be big fan of the brand.

After you mentioned Tata, I found this recent interview in which he cites the F-Type as the most cherished jewel, if you will, of his work with JLR. Thanks.

It's inspiring, this renewed energy. Like most other people, I've been delighted to see the newest saloons (although the long wheelbase XJL remains a personal favourite) as well as the all-important new crossover. Plenty of conquest buyers will be on the forecourt, given these new products. Exciting times.

Edited by unsprung on Wednesday 24th February 19:23

Edited by unsprung on Wednesday 24th February 19:24

Thanks for the links. I saw the Jay Leno review - another Jaguar fan.

One day someone ought to study how Tata has approached the JLR revival with Ford's approach to its late (and unlamented?) Premier Automotive Group. Volvo too appears to be ungoing a product revival under its new owners. I think the jury is still out on Aston Martin since it broke free. Have I missed any brand?

[unsprung]

oldtimer2 said:

Have I missed any brand?

Your question dovetails nicely with the issue of Jaguar strategy which was raised earlier in this thread.

The Premier Automotive Group (PAG) included two domestic product lines -- Mercury (since discontinued) and Lincoln. The latter has traveled a particularly egregious path, selling a sort of caricature of luxury to American OAPs whilst being managed by a German living in the UK. It was the proverbial dog's dinner.

Now relaunched, Lincoln proudly revealed their new large exec, the Continental sedan.

"This isn't quite what we had expected," many Americans said. Management at Lincoln were not bothered; the Continental had been conceived also with the Chinese market in mind. So... We see an another example of the shifting sands faced by OEMs.

If I mention the US market in relation to Jaguar, it's not a matter of jingoism, but of survival for one of the world's most storied luxury-performance brands.

And, similarly, if the Americans would like to see Lincoln return to relevance -- let alone glory -- they had better get used to the idea that the potentate in Shanghai or Shenyang will want to have a word about it.

As for the F-Type: I wouldn't have thought that the market could support an AWD niche of this two-seat sports car. But if we take a more global view, and if we consider the ever-splintering segments of motoring today, then, hey, it starts to make some sense.

[unrepentant]

oldtimer2 said:

One day someone ought to study how Tata has approached the JLR revival with Ford's approach to its late (and unlamented?) Premier Automotive Group. Volvo too appears to be ungoing a product revival under its new owners. I think the jury is still out on Aston Martin since it broke free. Have I missed any brand?

HTH. A good read.




Geely dragged their feet with Volvo, the brand's market share in the US halved while the dealers waited for the new XC90. The 2003 car (hardly updated since launch) was eventually replaced in 2015. It remains to be seen if it will sell in big enough numbers to rescue the brand. The S60 has never sold in the numbers expected. It's a good car but it's priced to compete with Audi and BMW and Volvo is not perceived as a luxury brand.

[oldtimer2]

unrepentant said:

HTH. A good read.




Geely dragged their feet with Volvo, the brand's market share in the US halved while the dealers waited for the new XC90. The 2003 car (hardly updated since launch) was eventually replaced in 2015. It remains to be seen if it will sell in big enough numbers to rescue the brand. The S60 has never sold in the numbers expected. It's a good car but it's priced to compete with Audi and BMW and Volvo is not perceived as a luxury brand.

To Unrepentant - thanks for the link - I will follow it up.
To Unsprung - thanks for the update on PAG.

[5ohmustang]

550bhp from a supercharged 5.0 V8, weighing at 3900lbs, hardly the best bang for buck at $105,400.

0-60 in 3.9 seconds, that is barely any faster than a stock 5.0 mustang.

I'd take a z06 over this any day.

[unrepentant]

5ohmustang said:

I'd take a z06 over this any day.

[Beefmeister]

In all fairness I'd struggle to look past a new Z06 over the F-Type R if I lived in the US.

[xRIEx]

Beefmeister said:

In all fairness I'd struggle to look past a new Z06 over the F-Type R if I lived in the US.

100bhp more with about 100kg less with a manual gearbox, at about $27k less? Me too.

[kambites]

I just had to look that up, I had no idea the Z06 was so heavy!

[Beefmeister]

It may not be as pretty as the F, but by god it looks purposeful!!!

[unrepentant]

Beefmeister said:

In all fairness I'd struggle to look past a new Z06 over the F-Type R if I lived in the US.

I drove a new Stingray back to back with an F-Type R on the oval at the Atlanta Speedway. The 'vette felt like a boat in comparison to the Jag. I've driven loads of 'vettes, including Z06 and an almost new $120k ZR1 last year. They all shake and rattle and feel cheap. Nothing like a Jag. The ZR1 was fast but that's all. Plus they're everywhere, almost as common as the Mustang. Most are driven by people in their 60's and 70's.

[helpmechef]

I bought the F Type R AWD 2017 low mileage recently and I love it. After having 2 TVR's previously I decided the F type is the most beautiful of cars and it is a monster when you ask for the power. The noise the smooth delivery, the looks and all the extras. What's not to love!