Tesla Model 3 revealed

Author
Discussion

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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Jader1973 said:
rscott said:
One of our clients has a P90D - it replaced their F430, which in turn had replaced a Boxster (which had deposited it's engine all over the M25 )
They find it quicker for real world usage - driving a mix of rural Suffolk roads and the A12/ M25 .

Yes the Tesla dropped out of high power mode during a 'ring attempt, but how often in the real world do you actually drive like that? According to one of the engineers involved in the Mclaren F1 road car, it's unheard of for those to be driven at full throttle more than 5% of the time (mentioned during one of the press conferences at the British GP)
But the motoring world (press / manufacturers / enthusiasts) use the 'ring as a benchmark, not just in laptimes but for ride and handling. Even Opel are saying the new Insignia GSi is faster round it than the old VXR for example.

It isn't possible to describe a Tesla as a performance car because it is incapable of lapping the petrol head's benchmark in a meaningful time. Which means it is also incapable of having the ride and handling tuned for performance.

It is essentially a Hyundai Genesis with a lower 0 to 60 time, a shorter range, and poorer build quality.
My car has a pretty poor 'ring time, yet is regularly recommended as one of the best handling cars on the market.. (It's an MX-5).

Ring times aren't a "petrol head's benchmark" either - they're just the latest willy waving by manufacturers.

bodhi

10,333 posts

228 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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The Teslas I've seen in the wild ain't leaving anything for dead, they're too busy slipstreaming lorries on Lane 1 of the M6.

Busa mav

2,556 posts

153 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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bodhi said:
The Teslas I've seen in the wild ain't leaving anything for dead, they're too busy slipstreaming lorries on Lane 1 of the M6.
you need to find a friend with one and get a ride in it.

Awesome performance.

CooperS

4,500 posts

218 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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Some of the EV worriers just baffle me.

As a i3 owner I can't imagine going back to a 2.0d or petrol car. It's not the speed that does it for us EV owners it's the way it delivers that power so smoothly and importantly quietly they just feel refined.

I think a Tesla could be next for me and the only thing that would stop this is if the next i3 comes up to match the Model3 or BMW deliver a X3 / family friendly EV in the next 2 years.

I do 26k + miles a year..... That is alot in any car but honestly my 90 mile commute is eaten up in the i3. I have plenty of range afterwards and then I plug it in and all for the princely sum of £2.35....... my 1 series cost me £12 a day in fuel.. it was noisy, unrefined and felt slow compared to the i3.

CooperS

4,500 posts

218 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
bodhi said:
The Teslas I've seen in the wild ain't leaving anything for dead, they're too busy slipstreaming lorries on Lane 1 of the M6.
Why do you feel the justification for a Tesla needs to be speed.... It really isnt.... On my way to work i will spot 5 Tesla's, 4 i3's and a handful of leafs none who appear to be jammed up the backside of a lorry ( I appreciate noticing this is a little geeky).

Zoon

6,654 posts

120 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbnvZlPZZQc

Man builds car for £10k which does 748 miles on a single charge.

IforB

9,840 posts

228 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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Mr GrimNasty said:
Always highly amusing that people still think there is some amazing battery development just around the corner just because they've been reading about an interesting lab effect that some researcher is bigging up to get sucker money in to pay his mortgage. 99.999% of these never make it to production because they don't scale up or are uneconomic or impractical etc.

There is no prospect of any battery development that is going to rewrite the fundamental laws of physics or provide the shift-change required to make EVs economically viable. ICE cars will always been the sane commercial option.

Yes, we may be forced to use EVs, but it will be expensive and frustrating.

In all likelihood, once politicians finally realise that 'decarbonising' the electricity grid is completely incompatible with 100% EV cars, and that they have been lied to by eco-activists over supposed pollution, goals will change significantly.

National Grid has already looked into this and estimates they'll need another 30GW to meet peak demand.

Demand side management and storage isn't going to help significantly with that.

So you are left needing another 10 Hinkleys, 12 2.5GW CCGT (gas), or 48,000 windmills (10GW of wind can only semi-reliably replace 1-2GW of coventonal peak demand generation because of intermittency etc.)

Obviously this is all pie in the sky and insanely expensive, apart from the gas option - which is not zero carbon.

I find it highly amusing to read people's opinion on things when they don't have any actual knowledge and are just scoffing for the hell of it.

I can't say much as I am under an NDA, but I have played with and seen battery tech that is being productionised right now that is a long way ahead of the Li battery tech we have today. Think 700+kwh/kg rather than 200-300

There's still work to be done, but in the next few years, there will be some big changes on that front. There are a lot of charlatans promising the world in terms of battery tech, but there are some very real things happening too.

You might not be aware of it, but it is happening and money is being poured into development as everyone realises that battery and energy storage is the only holding back a fully electric future.

bodhi

10,333 posts

228 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
CooperS said:
Why do you feel the justification for a Tesla needs to be speed.... It really isnt.... On my way to work i will spot 5 Tesla's, 4 i3's and a handful of leafs none who appear to be jammed up the backside of a lorry ( I appreciate noticing this is a little geeky).
Um, becuase somebody made a reference to it leaving a V8 for dead?

Colonial

13,553 posts

204 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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rscott said:
The daily driver is a Range Rover (or was last week, it's probably another big SUV by now). The Tesla is the fun car. They needed something with room for a baby as well and weren't interested in the usual M5/E63 suggestions.
I know a guy with one. It's his daily. From his garage in Sydney to his factory 90minutes north. Has a charger at the factory.

Works perfectly. His 911 is reserved for weekends. His cayenne turbo or Bell 429 helicopter for longer trips.

It's only a p85d with the longer range option but is still phenomenal.

dxg

8,122 posts

259 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
IforB said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Always highly amusing that people still think there is some amazing battery development just around the corner just because they've been reading about an interesting lab effect that some researcher is bigging up to get sucker money in to pay his mortgage. 99.999% of these never make it to production because they don't scale up or are uneconomic or impractical etc.

There is no prospect of any battery development that is going to rewrite the fundamental laws of physics or provide the shift-change required to make EVs economically viable. ICE cars will always been the sane commercial option.

Yes, we may be forced to use EVs, but it will be expensive and frustrating.

In all likelihood, once politicians finally realise that 'decarbonising' the electricity grid is completely incompatible with 100% EV cars, and that they have been lied to by eco-activists over supposed pollution, goals will change significantly.

National Grid has already looked into this and estimates they'll need another 30GW to meet peak demand.

Demand side management and storage isn't going to help significantly with that.

So you are left needing another 10 Hinkleys, 12 2.5GW CCGT (gas), or 48,000 windmills (10GW of wind can only semi-reliably replace 1-2GW of coventonal peak demand generation because of intermittency etc.)

Obviously this is all pie in the sky and insanely expensive, apart from the gas option - which is not zero carbon.

I find it highly amusing to read people's opinion on things when they don't have any actual knowledge and are just scoffing for the hell of it.

I can't say much as I am under an NDA, but I have played with and seen battery tech that is being productionised right now that is a long way ahead of the Li battery tech we have today. Think 700+kwh/kg rather than 200-300

There's still work to be done, but in the next few years, there will be some big changes on that front. There are a lot of charlatans promising the world in terms of battery tech, but there are some very real things happening too.

You might not be aware of it, but it is happening and money is being poured into development as everyone realises that battery and energy storage is the only holding back a fully electric future.
UK gov clearly want us to "create another ARM" in the battery technology world:

https://www.epsrc.ac.uk/funding/calls/iscffaradayc...

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
bodhi said:
CooperS said:
Why do you feel the justification for a Tesla needs to be speed.... It really isnt.... On my way to work i will spot 5 Tesla's, 4 i3's and a handful of leafs none who appear to be jammed up the backside of a lorry ( I appreciate noticing this is a little geeky).
Um, becuase somebody made a reference to it leaving a V8 for dead?
Because someone said that the inability to post a good Nurburgring time was important.

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

236 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
hehe

I think I might actually go for that blue paint colour as well. Looks great from what I've seen of them so far.

Tuna

19,930 posts

283 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
To be fair, anyone reaching for justification for their choice of car - EV or ICE - really needs to get a grip.

It's perfectly OK to like a car without having to play top trumps with the speed, range, headroom or whatever.

It's perfectly OK to choose a car with criteria that are unique to you.

It's perfectly OK for someone else to have different criteria.

At present, there are relatively few ICE models, so there are many niches that just aren't covered. People on both sides of the debate have to get over that - and accept that given time, there will certainly be more choices coming out. More choice = better fit.

Over time, we'll also see the EV market maturing - signs like the commitment to produce an electric Mini show that established manufacturers are aiming to produce mass market entrants that will shake the market up and move the debate onto quality rather than novelty.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
It does seem strange that people are so incapable of understanding that EVs are suitable for some people but not others and that obviously as the technology progresses, the proportion of people they are suitable for will shift along with it.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
It does seem strange that people are so incapable of understanding that EVs are suitable for some people but not others and that obviously as the technology progresses, the proportion of people they are suitable for will shift along with it.
Incapable, or unwilling?

manracer

1,544 posts

96 months

Friday 28th July 2017
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theplayingmantis said:
manracer said:
That gave me a good chuckle I'll give you that, but I think everything you wrote is garbage.
what even the last bit which you said yourself on the other tesla thread, you wanted one to be different.
Firstly what about everything else you wrote?

Im sure I said I wanted something a bit different not that I wanted to be different...

manracer

1,544 posts

96 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all


Not quite sure why my reservation states I ordered it in 1969!

IforB

9,840 posts

228 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
It does seem strange that people are so incapable of understanding that EVs are suitable for some people but not others and that obviously as the technology progresses, the proportion of people they are suitable for will shift along with it.
Well put.

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

236 months

Friday 28th July 2017
quotequote all
manracer said:


Not quite sure why my reservation states I ordered it in 1969!
There have been a few strange things happening on that page since 400,000 people started refreshing it every 5 minutes!

speedking31

3,543 posts

135 months

Saturday 29th July 2017
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Reliable software is exactly what you need with an EV eek