RE: Jaguar F-Pace: Review

[gweaver]

LewisR said:

I was thinking that where there is already XJ, XE & XF they could have used XS or XR or something similar.

As it's 4 wheel drive, how about XR4x4 ?

I was thinking XXL, though it wouldn't be in America..

[RobGT81]

There is an XF Sportsbrake on the cars but still some way off by all accounts :-/

[gizlaroc]

PunterCam said:

Looks fking revolting. I love how the hate towards these cars 10 years ago has evolved into gentle admiration from enthusiasts and journalists.

Jaguar have lost the plot these days. I've no idea what they're up to. One odd car after another, all with try-hard styling. At least the F-Type is cheap, but I've still seen almost none on the road.

I much prefer cars where they don't try and style them.

I remember my neighbour picking up his E-Type back in the day, oh how me and my old man laughed at how over styled it was compared to our Lada.

[GTEYE]

loveice said:

EnglishTony said:

Salgar said:

EnglishTony said:

Which Land Rover is this based on? Assuming it is and we are allowed know.

None, it's all completely new

Thanks.

I was wondering if it wasn't perhaps the new Discovery Sport Road Shägger Edition

Nope, it isn't a "completely" new platform. F-Pace is based on XE, therefore it's based on Jaguar's iQ[AL] platform which has a alumium construction and rear-wheel drive based. Hopefully, LR will use this platform for its future Freelander(Disco Sport). The current Ford Focus platform isn't really ideal other than cheap to produce over the years.

Surely it might also be the base for the next gen Evoque? Isnt the current one based on the old Freelander floorpan? I might be wrong!

[MyCC]

Konrod said:

That's one customer lost then. I'll have to go German when I replace the XF as all I want is a large estate car, not an overpriced, jacked up SUV. Pity really as the XF has been ultra reliable, comfortable and quick.

What I don't get is why Jaguar can only do one or the other - Merc/Audi/BMW do both in that segment.

Money. Simple. JLR are a minnow compared to the German brands so have to focus on the high margin cars first. Estates are not volume sellers by comparison to the world-demand for SUVs.

Regards,

MyCC.

[rtz62]

unpc said:

PunterCam said:

Looks fking revolting. I love how the hate towards these cars 10 years ago has evolved into gentle admiration from enthusiasts and journalists.

Jaguar have lost the plot these days. I've no idea what they're up to. One odd car after another, all with try-hard styling. At least the F-Type is cheap, but I've still seen almost none on the road.

Strange reply. Can you name other better looking SUVs? Like it or not SUVs are here to stay.

1970-96, hardly worth mentioning really, Jack of All Trades, and all that...



And that wasn't being sarcastic, by the way; ahead of its time, and has anything made since looked so good, and done everything so well???

[gizlaroc]

Yeah loads imho.

Not going to list them as my personal preference and obviously that is yours.

But even a new one of the above would be better imho.

[tankplanker]

PunterCam said:

Looks fking revolting. I love how the hate towards these cars 10 years ago has evolved into gentle admiration from enthusiasts and journalists.

Jaguar have lost the plot these days. I've no idea what they're up to. One odd car after another, all with try-hard styling. At least the F-Type is cheap, but I've still seen almost none on the road.

I've seen a few development mules and even a couple of them that appear to be JLR management cars since before Christmas, but then I live in the main catchment for the JLR sites. Near Birmingham Airport there is a huge car park full of them waiting to be delivered. I think full speed delivery doesn't start till after April?

I've been promised a weekend loan of the petrol F-Type but not until April as the dealer doesn't get any stock till then. The one I have seen was a pre production model delivered to the dealer that you could sit in but not start or drive.

[DonkeyApple]

rtz62 said:

1970-96, hardly worth mentioning really, Jack of All Trades, and all that...



And that wasn't being sarcastic, by the way; ahead of its time, and has anything made since looked so good, and done everything so well???

The key to that car was that at the time it could literally do everything to a good enough degree to be extremely practical.

It was better off-road than the Land Rover.
It was a hatchback in 1969 when the first hatchback was the Golf in 1979.
It was the superior estate car both in the modern term and the historic.
It was safe.
It was spacious for people.
Enormous load space.
It had folding seats.
It had a very smooth, torquey V8.
It would cruise on motorways at high speed.
It could travel down any type of road at pace.
You could turn up to any event in it and it could be dirty or clean.
It had a remarkably low centre of gravity that made it handle remarkably well for its shape. Spen King designed it to roll on a very low centre point which allowed it to be slung about far more than people expected.


It really was an immense bit of kit where they took what the Yanks had started to do with regards to adding road orientated usability to off-road vehicles and did it with fantastic British aplomb.

Personally, I think they have done a pretty good job in continuing in that vein.

[WestyCarl]

PunterCam said:

Looks fking revolting. I love how the hate towards these cars 10 years ago has evolved into gentle admiration from enthusiasts and journalists.

Jaguar have lost the plot these days. I've no idea what they're up to. One odd car after another, all with try-hard styling. At least the F-Type is cheap, but I've still seen almost none on the road.

Yeah, they've really lost the plot with record sales (and profit), Muppets, no idea what they are doing.

[anonymous-user]

MikeGalos said:

The most important new car Jaguar has ever made?

No. That'd be either the XK-120 or the E-Type.

Next silly question?

Seriously it is the most important vehicle Jaguar has ever made.

Yes the E-Type and the XK-120 were stunning cars but they were cars.

This new segment is extremely popular and Jaguar had to build one to increase sales.

We might not all like SUV but there are selling extremely well

[oldtimer2]

DonkeyApple said:

rtz62 said:

1970-96, hardly worth mentioning really, Jack of All Trades, and all that...



And that wasn't being sarcastic, by the way; ahead of its time, and has anything made since looked so good, and done everything so well???

The key to that car was that at the time it could literally do everything to a good enough degree to be extremely practical.

It was better off-road than the Land Rover.
It was a hatchback in 1969 when the first hatchback was the Golf in 1979.
It was the superior estate car both in the modern term and the historic.
It was safe.
It was spacious for people.
Enormous load space.
It had folding seats.
It had a very smooth, torquey V8.
It would cruise on motorways at high speed.
It could travel down any type of road at pace.
You could turn up to any event in it and it could be dirty or clean.
It had a remarkably low centre of gravity that made it handle remarkably well for its shape. Spen King designed it to roll on a very low centre point which allowed it to be slung about far more than people expected.


It really was an immense bit of kit where they took what the Yanks had started to do with regards to adding road orientated usability to off-road vehicles and did it with fantastic British aplomb.

Personally, I think they have done a pretty good job in continuing in that vein.

In its original form it was rated to tow 4000kg (vs 3500kg in later versions).

Re the first hatchback, I think the so-called Austin A40 Farina launched in 1959 has a stronger claim than the Golf.

The latest evolution of the Range Rover brand is indeed impressive. So much so that it must be paying for everything else that is happening at JLR, including this latest attempt to breathe profitable life into the Jaguar brand. The F-Pace looks as though it might work too. Although there will be some cannibilisation of other Land Rover sales, I doubt it will be all that significant considering the two very different brand profiles and customers that are targeted.

[unsprung]

oldtimer2 said:

Jaguar has been very slow to get into this market - remember the Ian Callum video asking for "permission" to make an SUV?

Slow indeed. Better late than never, I suppose. The F-Pace will bring loads of first-time Jaguar buyers to the brand.

For those here who talk of risking volume over at Land Rover: this is not a zero-sum game; it's about expanding the pie. There are crossover buyers who would never consider an SUV from Land Rover. But they'd been keen to look at this crossover from Jaguar.

This should do well in US, China and select parts of the Middle East. The greatest hurdles will be reliability and the dealership experience. If either of these are less than world class, the customer reviews will be savage. The alternatives are many. Let's hope Jaguar are on the ball.

[Denver09]

DPSFleet said:

I am a JLR fan and own two Range Rovers and an F type so hopefully not biased. HOWEVER, I simply dont get this at all. It's very forgettable in the skin and blends in with all the other SUV's. I live near Gaydon and have grown to see these a lot, not impressed despite going to a factory launch. 4 cylinder engines mmmmmm??? Internally Jaguar apparently still tries to forget the X type (mistake), I think they should have forgotten this venture into SUV's. Sadly its all driven by profit and no doubt the hype will sell it on finance packages to "executives". Now what about those XKSS recreations.............eh?

These SUVs allow car manufacturers to invest money into exciting cars like the F-Type. Had Porsche not launched the Cayenne we would not have see cars like the Cayman perhaps...I personally like the F Pace, although , from the pictures, the interior is no where near as good as the Macan or the Land Rovers in my opinion. To another posters point about taking sales from LR, if SUV sales are predicted to grow by 50% then by bringing in a Jaguar SUV will enable them to meet demand without flooding the market with LR's which could damage the exclusive appeal of such a car.

[Limpet]

Vocal Minority said:

As a genuine question, not a snipe, what difference does it make where the ultimate ownership is? It's all British engineered and built, and so all the reinvestment comes to GB - as does all of the jobs and (presumably) the tax - unless JLR (which is still a separate company to Tata with its own registration) is not based in the UK? OK the top slice of the profit after all of the reinvestment and tax goes to India - but as this would be a matter for private executives I can't say it strikes me as important one way or the other.

But that's just me.

I suppose it doesn't really, at least from a practical point of view, and especially in the modern globalised economy. Emotively, perhaps it's slightly different.

The main thing is that cars are coming out of JLR and MINI plants and selling like hot cakes all over the world, and the success shows no signs of abating. I just think it's a little embarrassing that homegrown management weren't capable of delivering this success 20+ years ago.

[fatboy b]

PunterCam said:

Looks fking revolting. I love how the hate towards these cars 10 years ago has evolved into gentle admiration from enthusiasts and journalists.

Jaguar have lost the plot these days. I've no idea what they're up to. One odd car after another, all with try-hard styling. At least the F-Type is cheap, but I've still seen almost none on the road.

I'm sure they'l gain more customers from the German marques than they lose to them.

[fatboy b]

Konrod said:

That's one customer lost then. I'll have to go German when I replace the XF as all I want is a large estate car, not an overpriced, jacked up SUV. Pity really as the XF has been ultra reliable, comfortable and quick.

What I don't get is why Jaguar can only do one or the other - Merc/Audi/BMW do both in that segment.

They're still in the cherry-picking phase. They simply can;t pander to every market, but must choose the most lucrative to build the volumes that then allow them to expand the range. Simple maths really. Merc/BMW/Audi are already there, but with much much uglier offerings.

[British Beef]

This should help Jaguar, fund a sub F-Type sports car, to go head to head with the Boxster.

Make it 25% lighter, smaller and cheaper than the F type, retain a V6 option and they would be onto a proper boxster / cayman alternative, hell just having a V6 compared to a turbo 4 would win it over for me... if the rest of the driving experience was similar!

[TheUnit]

A douche wagon just like the rest of them.

[Adam Ansel]

loveice said:

Nope, it isn't a "completely" new platform. F-Pace is based on XE, therefore it's based on Jaguar's iQ[AL] platform which has a alumium construction and rear-wheel drive based. Hopefully, LR will use this platform for its future Freelander(Disco Sport). The current Ford Focus platform isn't really ideal other than cheap to produce over the years.

I find this all a bit confusing because the Jaguar X Type and the Range Rover Freelander were produced side by side in the Liverpool plant, both 4WD, but with different chassis.
The X Type was built on Ford's CD132 platform. Where C and D are the car sizes it was engineered for. This was also used on the second generation Mondeo (the first generation was CDW27 platform) which was confusingly called the Mk3. The Mk2 having been a first generation facelift. Mondeo 2nd generation had a 108.4 inch wheelbase, which was shortened to 106.7 inches for the Jag to reduce rear seat legroom, they didn't want it competing with bigger Jags.

The original Freelander (L314) was a bespoke chassis designed by Rover (project CB40) and then developed by BMW.
The Mk 2 Freelander used a Ford chassis, this time the EUCD platform, which was a development of Ford's earlier C1 platform. The EUCD/C1 platform has been used in lots of Mazdas, Volvos and Fords. Within Ford it is being replaced with the Global C platform.
Although Ford have moved on JLR haven't. The EUCD was used in the Evoque and, amazingly, in last year's new Discovery Sport. Interesting considering it was first used in the 2003 C-Max. JLR certainly have had great value from this platform, the Evoque and Disco Sport must have cost very little to develop.

The Focus 1 was C170 platform, evolved from the CDW27 Ford Mondeo estate and was fairly bespoke, the only other vehicle it went into was the Transit Connect.
The Focus 2 was C1, so an earlier version of the chassis on the Freelander 2, Evoque and Discovery Sport.

Jaguar used a brand new aluminium chassis in the X350 XJ and carried it over to the current X351. They even have identical wheelbases at 119.4 inches. An evolution of this went on to the X150 XK. It wasn't used on the first XF because Jaguar didn't have enough money, so just re-skinned the S Type. In the XJ this chassis was susceptible to going banana shaped after minor rear shunts, which led to many otherwise good cars being written off.
The F Type was a considerable rethink, Jaguar called it their 4th generation aluminium technology, a bit of hyperbole. It features a double front bulkhead amongst many other refinements. The 2015 XE and XF are merely developments of the F type. The F-Pace is just another reskin of the same underpinnings. Giving Jaguar 4 models with fairly modern aluminium underpinnings and the XJ, with a chassis dating back to 2003.

I hope I got all that right. And it even came round to being on topic.