RE: BMW M4 GTS: Review
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
I like the looks & when a GT3/4 is around 100k+ I think it represents decent value in this day & age for a stripped down fast road/track car, Aston are charging 180k for their GT8 which will be slower than the M4.
Apples and oranges. The Aston has a carbon fibre body, is much rarer and a different sort of exotic all together. And if it's about lap times/speed you wouldn't buy either. I agree but I was just pointing out that this type of car always carries a big premium over the standard model.
Carrera 2S vs GT3 C63 Coupe vs C63 Black Cayman vs GT4 V8 Vantage vs GT8 GT-R vs Nismo Edition, all carry big premiums & it's not like BMW doesn't have the pedigree to build a car like this, they're just late to the party.
Carrera 2S vs GT3 C63 Coupe vs C63 Black Cayman vs GT4 V8 Vantage vs GT8 GT-R vs Nismo Edition, all carry big premiums & it's not like BMW doesn't have the pedigree to build a car like this, they're just late to the party.
Such a fantastic car in almost every sense, but utterly pointless.
One could have even more performance in cars which cost less; Nissan GTR, for example. But of course that is not the point, this is an investment opportunity. But I think that this car is too expensive and not rare enough to warrant keeping it in pristine and low mileage condition long enough for the investment to really pay off.
Hats off to BMW for making such special machinery in the first place, but their pricing is ludicrous. They will no doubt sell every one of them very quickily though, such is the fan base
One could have even more performance in cars which cost less; Nissan GTR, for example. But of course that is not the point, this is an investment opportunity. But I think that this car is too expensive and not rare enough to warrant keeping it in pristine and low mileage condition long enough for the investment to really pay off.
Hats off to BMW for making such special machinery in the first place, but their pricing is ludicrous. They will no doubt sell every one of them very quickily though, such is the fan base
cidered77 said:
1:18 ish Combe lap time looking at that vid, driven pretty hard. That's *OK*, but there is a vid from Autocar out there with the 650s, GT3 and 458 speciale around Combe with them each between 4-5 seconds quicker.
I was thinking similar, I would imagine driven properly the GTS would be up with them, as that GTS lap is only a couple of seconds quicker than I do Combe on road tyres in an MX5, which the internet will tell you is slow and under powered, so you would expect a large step more for something with over 300bhp extra on sticky Cup tyres.sandys said:
cidered77 said:
1:18 ish Combe lap time looking at that vid, driven pretty hard. That's *OK*, but there is a vid from Autocar out there with the 650s, GT3 and 458 speciale around Combe with them each between 4-5 seconds quicker.
I was thinking similar, I would imagine driven properly the GTS would be up with them, as that GTS lap is only a couple of seconds quicker than I do Combe on road tyres in an MX5, which the internet will tell you is slow and under powered, so you would expect a large step more for something with over 300bhp extra on sticky Cup tyres.Water injection has a secondary effect other than cooling, when vapourised (at about atmospheric pressure) water has a expansion ratio of over a thousand, now to be fair you can expect a significantly higher pressure in the combustion phase but even at 120 barg ( a reasonable value based on an intial compression ratio in the turbos of 1.5:1 (8.8 psi)and a compression ratio in the cylinder of 10.2:1 ) and a decently efficient combustion (75% expansion) the water will boost the pressure in the combustion to over 140 barg (daves back of envelope thermodynamic sums, probably worth a check) and this will increase the impulse on the piston. All good.
This is not the only time that this sort of thing has been done.
Early transatlantic B707's and DC-8's did not really have enough thrust on three engines (allowing for a safety margin on engine failure at take off) on Jet Fuel alone, so a water (or water methanol mix) was injected into the tail pipe (or later ahead of the LP Turbine) to add more thrust (and improve the thermal efficiency) of the Pratt and Whitney JT-3C's. So they were part steam powered aircraft!
Now we have a part steam powered sports car, excellent.
James Watt would have been proud.
This is not the only time that this sort of thing has been done.
Early transatlantic B707's and DC-8's did not really have enough thrust on three engines (allowing for a safety margin on engine failure at take off) on Jet Fuel alone, so a water (or water methanol mix) was injected into the tail pipe (or later ahead of the LP Turbine) to add more thrust (and improve the thermal efficiency) of the Pratt and Whitney JT-3C's. So they were part steam powered aircraft!
Now we have a part steam powered sports car, excellent.
James Watt would have been proud.
Foodhoover said:
Water injection has a secondary effect other than cooling, when vapourised (at about atmospheric pressure) water has a expansion ratio of over a thousand, now to be fair you can expect a significantly higher pressure in the combustion phase but even at 120 barg ( a reasonable value based on an intial compression ratio in the turbos of 1.5:1 (8.8 psi)and a compression ratio in the cylinder of 10.2:1 ) and a decently efficient combustion (75% expansion) the water will boost the pressure in the combustion to over 140 barg (daves back of envelope thermodynamic sums, probably worth a check) and this will increase the impulse on the piston. All good.
This is not the only time that this sort of thing has been done.
Early transatlantic B707's and DC-8's did not really have enough thrust on three engines (allowing for a safety margin on engine failure at take off) on Jet Fuel alone, so a water (or water methanol mix) was injected into the tail pipe (or later ahead of the LP Turbine) to add more thrust (and improve the thermal efficiency) of the Pratt and Whitney JT-3C's. So they were part steam powered aircraft!
Now we have a part steam powered sports car, excellent.
James Watt would have been proud.
...and occasionally on Pistonheads, you actually learn something!This is not the only time that this sort of thing has been done.
Early transatlantic B707's and DC-8's did not really have enough thrust on three engines (allowing for a safety margin on engine failure at take off) on Jet Fuel alone, so a water (or water methanol mix) was injected into the tail pipe (or later ahead of the LP Turbine) to add more thrust (and improve the thermal efficiency) of the Pratt and Whitney JT-3C's. So they were part steam powered aircraft!
Now we have a part steam powered sports car, excellent.
James Watt would have been proud.
Now what the hell is an elastic steering damper, and why in hell would any car have one?
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