RE: Porsche 718 Cayman S: Review
Discussion
Timbola said:
Well, that's the fantastic thing about buying a mid-engined, rear-wheel drive, low-slung car with an outstanding chassis and excellent driving dynamics, that is also a Porsche.
You get the Badge to satisfy people like your friend here, and you get the aforementioned driving dynamics to satisfy the likes of me. Best of both worlds.
Other than the numb steering and not very nice sounding 4 pot engine that would seem to be more home in a 30K hatch! Regardless of the subjective view of the car and it's abilities though the point is that I personally (limited as that may be) don't know anyone who would buy it for anything more then the badge.You get the Badge to satisfy people like your friend here, and you get the aforementioned driving dynamics to satisfy the likes of me. Best of both worlds.
Porsche is very aware of their market and I am sure they could have delivered a car that would truly excite both enthusiasts and non enthusiasts alike. Instead they appear to be trying to appeal to a younger generation who seem to me to have no care for real world driving dynamics and mostly care about stats and bragging rights.
Timbola said:
j90gta said:
If I had £67,500 to scratch a Porsche itch I don't think that a 4-cylinder Cayman would do it. That much money would buy an awful lot of 911, with or without turbos!!
Different beasts though.911 is a rear-engined 4-seater. Cayman is a mid-engined 2-seater.
Not many new MRs around for the money.
GroundEffect said:
I'd put money on the F4 Turbo being heavier, installed (i.e. with charge air coolers etc).
The current F4 turbo is very similar in terms of weight to the old flat-six. Hopefully when they come to produce an all-new Boxster in a few years they can use the smaller dimensions to make the overall car lighter, even if the engine itself isn't. From an engineering/packaging perspective the current product seems a like a "worst of both worlds" proposition while they transition but in the long run I think it'll be a decent trade off if they get it right (which Porsche usually do). yonex said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
They have done but the power/litre they are putting out combined with the packaging and extra cost doesn't make it attractive. Check out the Kawasaki H2
Dan Trent said:
Fair point but this is a first drive, not a comparison test so I'll have to beg indulgence for concentrating on the Cayman in this instance.
And yet there were five references to Porsche/Cayman/911 in the first two paragraphs alone of your Evora 400 first drive article........EricE said:
j90gta said:
If I had £67,500 to scratch a Porsche itch I don't think that a 4-cylinder Cayman would do it. That much money would buy an awful lot of 911, with or without turbos!!
That's also my conclusion. Too expensive for what it is unless you buy the base model without any options, which IMO defeats the purpose because to me a lot of the everyday Porsche charm comes from options such as full leather, nice seats, decent sound system, et cetera.The previous 981 was also expensive but at least it had a 911 engine which — thanks to my silly man maths — made it look relatively good value in comparison. I expected a significant price cut with the introduction of the 4-cylinder engine or at least some good-will gestures like PCM Nav as standard equipment.
Timbola said:
Different beasts though.
911 is a rear-engined 4-seater. Cayman is a mid-engined 2-seater.
Not many new MRs around for the money.
I agree. The Cayman has gone from being a mid-price car with the engine from an expensive car (the 911) to a mid-price car with an engine more akin to what you will find in a hot hatch.911 is a rear-engined 4-seater. Cayman is a mid-engined 2-seater.
Not many new MRs around for the money.
Correct but that's about to change. Here's hope for the new Renault Alpine and Audi R6!
It really is back to the future with Porsche/VW. The flat four 2litre price is outrageous, the selling us of turbo technology again means longevity without problems has gone. The older 6 cylinder cars will become highly prized in years to come but there should have been a Golf R engined base model at £5k-£10k lower than the current base model. As to value for money, the options list rules that out as dealers advise on the resale must have options. The second hand market is likely to be far more rewarding if buying from reputable quality dealers. German car makers have been forced down this cul de sac by EU fuel consumption legislation. Another good reason for British manufacturers to chase sales outside of the EU without this retro technology being forced upon the. Beware AMG engined Aston Martins sounding like beetle vans!
Edited by pagani1 on Monday 11th July 14:16
Edited by pagani1 on Monday 11th July 14:17
pagani1 said:
Another good reason for British manufacturers to chase sales outside of the EU without this retro technology being forced upon the. Beware AMG engined Aston Martins sounding like beetle vans!
Well....keep hoping chap, because I'm afraid given that around 50% of the UKs car production goes to the EU, and another 40% or so of the remaining RoW which subscribes to the same emissions regulations as the EU, that's never going to happen. Like it or not, emissions regulations that result in small capacity Turbo engines are a reality. Even supercars aren't immune to it I'm afraid.... WojaWabbit said:
Standard demographic of Porsche buyers these days. Of all the owners I know, very, very few would go for a drive just for the sake of it. They are predominantly interested in the image, or the attainment of having bought a Porsche. I've even heard members of PCGB saying things like "If you trigger traction control you're going too fast for public roads" and others who think venturing into the red line is a crime punishable by death. 
The real shame is that OPC's can/will refuse warranty work based on how a car has been driven. Encouraging owners to be very careful with their car incase it hurts the resell value. From the off you are expected to treat the car with a level of care that is in my opinion unreasonable. Not because it stops the first owner from ragging it to hell but because someone buying second hand cannot check this without using an OPC, so even when looking for a second hand car people tend to buy them from OPC's.Jam12321 said:
The real shame is that OPC's can/will refuse warranty work based on how a car has been driven. Encouraging owners to be very careful with their car incase it hurts the resell value. From the off you are expected to treat the car with a level of care that is in my opinion unreasonable. Not because it stops the first owner from ragging it to hell but because someone buying second hand cannot check this without using an OPC, so even when looking for a second hand car people tend to buy them from OPC's.
I am sorry JAN12321 - that is rubbish. When I told my OPC that I was taking my 911 on a track day and I asked advice on what to watch out for or what precautions to take - I was told...Have a great day, if you feel confident turn off the traction control, check your tyre pressures and be prepared for buying more petrol.
That was in 2000 in a 996 Carrera with sports chassis.
I went onto to buy a Carrera S/Turbo S and two GT3's all of which have been on the track with Porsche or non-Porsche organised track days.
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
nbetts said:
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
Which can easily be checked by a specialist as well. Sounds to me like the keyboard warriors and doom merchants have been busy again trying to worry everyone about driving their car!nbetts said:
I am sorry JAN12321 - that is rubbish. When I told my OPC that I was taking my 911 on a track day and I asked advice on what to watch out for or what precautions to take - I was told...
Have a great day, if you feel confident turn off the traction control, check your tyre pressures and be prepared for buying more petrol.
That was in 2000 in a 996 Carrera with sports chassis.
I went onto to buy a Carrera S/Turbo S and two GT3's all of which have been on the track with Porsche or non-Porsche organised track days.
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
Riiigghhhhtttt my mistake, thought it was a case that if you repeatedly red line the car it would be logged as well.Have a great day, if you feel confident turn off the traction control, check your tyre pressures and be prepared for buying more petrol.
That was in 2000 in a 996 Carrera with sports chassis.
I went onto to buy a Carrera S/Turbo S and two GT3's all of which have been on the track with Porsche or non-Porsche organised track days.
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
I will just shut my mouth up and stop talking s
te then! :-) WojaWabbit said:
Jam12321 said:
Another car that looks like it was updated using a CAD machine with no human interaction at all.
A buddy has been eyeing one of these up for a few months, when i asked him what attracted him to the car he replied:
Interior is sharp looking
0-60 is 5 seconds
Its a porsche
My friend is not a car person and is aware i have posted this. He agrees with me that the he has no intention of buying a sports car, just wants something that is fast and has a nice badge (his words). He lives in a town and i can guarantee he wont go out looking for roads to drive on, the only time that car will stretch its legs will be coming down a slip road or teaching people a lesson at the lights.
Standard demographic of Porsche buyers these days. Of all the owners I know, very, very few would go for a drive just for the sake of it. They are predominantly interested in the image, or the attainment of having bought a Porsche. I've even heard members of PCGB saying things like "If you trigger traction control you're going too fast for public roads" and others who think venturing into the red line is a crime punishable by death. A buddy has been eyeing one of these up for a few months, when i asked him what attracted him to the car he replied:
Interior is sharp looking
0-60 is 5 seconds
Its a porsche
My friend is not a car person and is aware i have posted this. He agrees with me that the he has no intention of buying a sports car, just wants something that is fast and has a nice badge (his words). He lives in a town and i can guarantee he wont go out looking for roads to drive on, the only time that car will stretch its legs will be coming down a slip road or teaching people a lesson at the lights.
For them it's just nice to own it but haven't got any inclination to really use it. Find out what it's really capable of. To them, F6, F4T, well it's just an engine. I have a friend who has a 987 Boxster and a RCZ. He's convinced his RCZ is the better handling car. As you say, 'interested in the image' but actual driving, no idea.
I've yet to see any number of fast cars out on a early Sunday morning pre breakfast excursion on my fine local country roads or anywhere else for that matter. I don't count motorways, anyone one can put their toe down in straight line.
Of course there are those who will open there car up on the easy fast sections of B roads and holt progress when the road gets interesting. Yep, a sweeping generalisation... there will be those who are out there just for the sake of it.
I do note van drivers are still holding up their honour and ringing everything out of them though.
It's the times we live in, enthusiasts know about the history, the sporting back ground etc... a lot just have the means to put something nice on the drive and you can't hold that against them.
Jam12321 said:
nbetts said:
I am sorry JAN12321 - that is rubbish. When I told my OPC that I was taking my 911 on a track day and I asked advice on what to watch out for or what precautions to take - I was told...
Have a great day, if you feel confident turn off the traction control, check your tyre pressures and be prepared for buying more petrol.
That was in 2000 in a 996 Carrera with sports chassis.
I went onto to buy a Carrera S/Turbo S and two GT3's all of which have been on the track with Porsche or non-Porsche organised track days.
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
Riiigghhhhtttt my mistake, thought it was a case that if you repeatedly red line the car it would be logged as well.Have a great day, if you feel confident turn off the traction control, check your tyre pressures and be prepared for buying more petrol.
That was in 2000 in a 996 Carrera with sports chassis.
I went onto to buy a Carrera S/Turbo S and two GT3's all of which have been on the track with Porsche or non-Porsche organised track days.
The only things Porsche and other non-Porsche dealers will specifically look out for is over-revs logged in the cars CPU -
I will just shut my mouth up and stop talking s
te then! :-) I think what you are confusing around red line is the cars log over-revs, applicable to manual cars being dropped a gear too early. As far as I am concerned this is perfectly fair. User error.
Have been to Silverstone PEC many times; they use the cars day in day out; launch control used on cars with it, and the cars take it fine.
swanny71 said:
Dan Trent said:
Fair point but this is a first drive, not a comparison test so I'll have to beg indulgence for concentrating on the Cayman in this instance.
And yet there were five references to Porsche/Cayman/911 in the first two paragraphs alone of your Evora 400 first drive article........
In response though I guess the reality is Porsche has little to prove and is, in this context, the establishment while Lotus is the challenger. As such it's inevitable the pressure is on Lotus to come up with a product that meets the expectations of customers who are, probably, considering the dominant force in the market. Porsche doesn't have that pressure against Lotus. Each story we write has a hook too and in the case of the Evora one the Porsche comparison was that. In the case of this 718 Cayman I thought there was sufficient interest in isolation to just drill down on the car and go into some detail about how it compares with its biggest rival - namely the car it replaces. Lotus is always the challenger in comparisons with Porsche so, I guess, the scrutiny will be more intense. Certainly the likes of Preuninger seem to respect Lotus and I get the impression the Cayman GT4 was, in part, a response by Porsche to prove it could still do the kind of purist cars many of us have accused it of abandoning. Without Lotus in the market I don't think you'd have them doing that.
As and when the opportunity presents itself and a fair intersection of price and performance presents itself I'd love to do a comparison. Given the flaying we got for daring to pitch an Exige Cup against the GT4 despite their comparable briefs, price and performance I may be struggling there but we'll keep trying!
Cheers,
Dan
thanks for the review Dan,.
another nail in the old Porsche coffin, well done to the management team in Stuttgart for helping to produce one of the worst Porsche sports cars of recent times.
they ripped the heart out of the car and what now? I am waiting for the tt rs to see if it's a decent steer? someone is having a laugh.
still, there is always the pictures of the gt2 mule that almost nobody will be able to buy.
I can't be arsed to look up the age after decadence but this is it.
another nail in the old Porsche coffin, well done to the management team in Stuttgart for helping to produce one of the worst Porsche sports cars of recent times.
they ripped the heart out of the car and what now? I am waiting for the tt rs to see if it's a decent steer? someone is having a laugh.
still, there is always the pictures of the gt2 mule that almost nobody will be able to buy.
I can't be arsed to look up the age after decadence but this is it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff