RE: BTCC car vs TT bike
Discussion
steelej said:
soad said:
Why no video?
Here's a video I put together of the event.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSupsXwa5W4
John.
Nicely done too.Löyly and blade7: please respond to things I've actually said, not things that you've imagined I've said.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 19th August 17:28
BlackPrince said:
And RobM77, I think that any road car except the quickest hypercars (P1, LaF, 918), a few very quick classic cars, and the quickest Caterhams and Ariels will not be as much fun on the road as an average superbike.
I agree 
It does depend how you get your fun of course, but for most people clinging on to a bike is going to be a more intense experience than sitting in a car, if the speeds or lap times are the same.Rob, totally agree your reply on the previous page re drivers who can fully exploit a cars limits of performance being rare. I think it's one of the key difference in that even if you're not good enough to fully exploit it, you can flirt with it and cross the line regularly, and live to drive another day.
I certainly don't do that on a bike, I spin the rear wheel occasionally, I back it into corners slightly only when I've overcooked it. For average drivers and riders, I think this is the source of why they are such different experiences. We can take some liberties in a car that we can't take on a bike.
Better or worse? Well that's just a stupid thing for me to say as it's just different. I love the accuracy and intensity needed to ride my bike quickish. It's so intense because you simply have to be 100% certain that you're inside the grip levels for the vast majority of the time. When riding fast, that's a narrow window with huge consequences if you miss it. I also like how it's completely at odds with the "you have to be a nutter to ride a bike" belief that many have.
I love driving for slightly different reasons, I like that my 'target zone' is in the fuzzy / limits of grip zone, I know that I'm not Lewis Hamilton and I know there are quicker techniques. But driving or riding on the road (for me anyway) isn't all about outright speed, it's about the interaction and the enjoyment. I try to be fast and smooth with both, but with a car you can take the mick a lot more.
I don't think at my level (roads and occasional track day) that there is any difference in skill level or any automatic difference in enjoyment. But I think at my level, you absolutely have to have a different approach to the two.
I have had spells of enjoying one more than the other, this has fluctuated on a 3 or 4 year cycle. But I know it's not because either is better, it's just because that's the one I'm enjoying most at that point in time.
I certainly don't do that on a bike, I spin the rear wheel occasionally, I back it into corners slightly only when I've overcooked it. For average drivers and riders, I think this is the source of why they are such different experiences. We can take some liberties in a car that we can't take on a bike.
Better or worse? Well that's just a stupid thing for me to say as it's just different. I love the accuracy and intensity needed to ride my bike quickish. It's so intense because you simply have to be 100% certain that you're inside the grip levels for the vast majority of the time. When riding fast, that's a narrow window with huge consequences if you miss it. I also like how it's completely at odds with the "you have to be a nutter to ride a bike" belief that many have.
I love driving for slightly different reasons, I like that my 'target zone' is in the fuzzy / limits of grip zone, I know that I'm not Lewis Hamilton and I know there are quicker techniques. But driving or riding on the road (for me anyway) isn't all about outright speed, it's about the interaction and the enjoyment. I try to be fast and smooth with both, but with a car you can take the mick a lot more.
I don't think at my level (roads and occasional track day) that there is any difference in skill level or any automatic difference in enjoyment. But I think at my level, you absolutely have to have a different approach to the two.
I have had spells of enjoying one more than the other, this has fluctuated on a 3 or 4 year cycle. But I know it's not because either is better, it's just because that's the one I'm enjoying most at that point in time.
I'm genuinely confused. It's like someone else is posting stuff in my name but I can't see it.thurleigh5 said:
Suggestion - try whatever it takes, psychology, humour, PR sorcery and and more, to see if you could repeat the same stunt with Lewis Hamilton and Velentino Rossi, preferrably in northers Italy. Preferably on video, with Dolby.
Did you catch the Guy Martin and David Coulthard programme on Channel 4 before the British GP? They had a V8 F1 car and I think it was Guy's Tyco BMW TT bike, both doing a series of challenges at Silverstone, culminating in a 'race' where DC had to try and lap the bike in three laps, which was jolly close if I remember rightly! It was good to hear their thoughts as they're both very good on camera. I don't know why for some it always goes down to a vs argument or one is better than the other, they're both good at different things.
Generally a bike is going to blitz a car on acceleration and a car is going to blitz a bike on cornering and on the brakes.
As others have said both can be equally as fun as each other, just on the whole you get to experience it less often in a car on the road as you're affected by other traffic more, but when you get a clear road, or on a trackday I think the right car can be equally as thrilling as a bike.
Generally a bike is going to blitz a car on acceleration and a car is going to blitz a bike on cornering and on the brakes.
As others have said both can be equally as fun as each other, just on the whole you get to experience it less often in a car on the road as you're affected by other traffic more, but when you get a clear road, or on a trackday I think the right car can be equally as thrilling as a bike.
Walter Sobchak said:
I don't know why for some it always goes down to a vs argument or one is better than the other, they're both good at different things.
Generally a bike is going to blitz a car on acceleration and a car is going to blitz a bike on cornering and on the brakes.
As others have said both can be equally as fun as each other, just on the whole you get to experience it less often in a car on the road as you're affected by other traffic more, but when you get a clear road, or on a trackday I think the right car can be equally as thrilling as a bike.
Generally a bike is going to blitz a car on acceleration and a car is going to blitz a bike on cornering and on the brakes.
As others have said both can be equally as fun as each other, just on the whole you get to experience it less often in a car on the road as you're affected by other traffic more, but when you get a clear road, or on a trackday I think the right car can be equally as thrilling as a bike.
It frustrates me how arguments always seem to get started on these sorts of threads (even out of nowhere, as we've seen) and I completely agree with you. John Surtees for example was world champion on both two and four wheels and Damon Hill made the switch too. As far as I know JS and DH love, own and drive both to this day and it's not really a question of which they or you prefer, moreso enjoying and making the most of both for what they offer. As an indicator of the sort of differences JM and GS were talking about in the OP video, my racing car laps Silverstone in about the same time as a Moto GP bike, but whilst my car tops out at only 130-140mph, the GP bike is touching 200mph 
Entirely different. I quoted those two because I know the figures, but I suspect the BTCC car and the TT bike saw an even bigger difference, which is what they were so flabbergasted at in the video!One thing I will say, as I said earlier, is that it's unwise to judge either until you've tried something of each properly sorted for the track. Cars probably show the biggest difference there between road and track machines, because the layout and engineering used in a single seater for example is not a development of a road car, it's entirely different in every way. Consequentially, there's a world of difference for example between a race modified Caterham or 2-Eleven and a slicks and wings single seater; the speed difference is enormous, obviously; but the involvement, responses and immediacy is on another level too.
Edited by RobM77 on Saturday 20th August 18:47
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