RE: VW Golf GTI Clubsport S vs British roads

[volkswizardph]

I am surprised cage wasn't an option either considering the prototypes had stickers on the side from a company that makes them.



Looks like they list one for the Mk7 and guess what it's called...

http://www.wiechers-sport.de/en/shop/ueberrollbueg...

(they are using a Scirocco for the pic for some reason but you get the idea

Edited by volkswizardph on Saturday 27th August 17:59

[Philbar]

A week and half ago we ventured up to Butter Tubs on the Yorkshire Dales, and we had the pleasure of seeing EVO magazine doing a bit of photography with this, a Seat and a Civic, and have to say what we saw from the outside, it was just like any other Golf on the road with a few bits added on, the Civic sounded so much better than either than the Seat or VW.

[volkswizardph]

Philbar said:

A week and half ago we ventured up to Butter Tubs on the Yorkshire Dales, and we had the pleasure of seeing EVO magazine doing a bit of photography with this, a Seat and a Civic, and have to say what we saw from the outside, it was just like any other Golf on the road with a few bits added on, the Civic sounded so much better than either than the Seat or VW.

Sound is just a small piece of the jigsaw for making the perfect hot hatch and anyway you can make the Golf sound better, making the Honda look less OTT is going to take a lot more effort.

Obviously taste is subjective but a friend of mine saw a new Type R at a dealership just after it was launched and said to the sales manager "OH MY GOD WHAT HAS SOMEONE DONE TO THEIR CAR?!", the sales manager said "THAT'S HOW IT COMES FROM THE FACTORY AND WE ARE EXPECTED TO SELL THEM LIKE THAT?!"

[R1nur]

volkswizardph said:

I am surprised cage wasn't an option either considering the prototypes had stickers on the side from a company that makes them.



Looks like they list one for the Mk7 and guess what it's called...

http://www.wiechers-sport.de/en/shop/ueberrollbueg...

(they are using a Scirocco for the pic for some reason but you get the idea

Edited by volkswizardph on Saturday 27th August 17:59

Great find. Thank you for posting.

Looks factory fit so well worth considering.

[Oakman]

Slightly tongue in cheek response to the performance vehicle with rear seats removed and practicality added !

[/URL]

Transporter T5 Kombi - rear seats removable, full storage space inside, factory semi stripped out, Bilstein adjustable Coilovers (developed and proven at the Ring)



PS. It's a VW .......;-)

Edited by Oakman on Sunday 28th August 00:16

[Relax]

Clivey said:

No, that's exactly my point. - There are eleventy billion versions of the Golf and all it's platform-sharing sister cars but BMW refuse to make, for example, a hatchback "M1" or a lightweight version of anything on that platform.

I'll use the Porsche model range to explain it but this is how it looks to me:

125i / GTI / Cupra etc. = "Carrera S"
M140i / Golf R / S3 = "911 Turbo"
M2 / TT RS - "911 Turbo S"
Golf Clubsport / Clubsport S = "911 GT3 / GT3 RS" - This is where we're missing a lightweight / more focussed M140i

It begs the question; if VAG can make the numbers work and sell every unit, why can't BMW? - Especially as if they put the same amount of effort in, the result would be something petrolheads would crave.

I can also use Porsche to answer your question on why BMW have not made the car you describe.
Do you remember year's back people had questioned why the boxtster wasn't turbocharged, well Porsche didn't do so as it's performance could possibly match the the 997 carrera or whatever it was at the time.
I think BMW have also done the same in their model line up, more cash equals more speed. Can you imagine them producing a smaller lighter cheaper faster ring car..........
I guess vw are not troubled by this as the brand is less performance oriented.

[Relax]

Oakman said:

Slightly tongue in cheek response to the performance vehicle with rear seats removed and practicality added !

[/URL]

Transporter T5 Kombi - rear seats removable, full storage space inside, factory semi stripped out, Bilstein adjustable Coilovers (developed and proven at the Ring)



PS. It's a VW .......;-)

Edited by Oakman on Sunday 28th August 00:16

I bet that has smashed 11 minute's a la ring!

[nunpuncher]

Relax said:

I can also use Porsche to answer your question on why BMW have not made the car you describe.
Do you remember year's back people had questioned why the boxtster wasn't turbocharged, well Porsche didn't do so as it's performance could possibly match the the 997 carrera or whatever it was at the time.
I think BMW have also done the same in their model line up, more cash equals more speed. Can you imagine them producing a smaller lighter cheaper faster ring car..........
I guess vw are not troubled by this as the brand is less performance oriented.

....And pricing.

What extent would BMW have to go to to make a light weight 1 series or M2? I shudder to think how much more expensive it would be than the Clubsport S. The f2x chassis is clearly pretty heavy and their classic i6 RWD configuration clearly makes for a heavier power/drivetrain so they are almost hobbled from the start in terms of weight reduction. The M2 isn't far off the weight of an M4, they could distance it further with similar carbon roof etc but then price would almost be the same.

The lack of sister brands for BMW makes it very difficult for them in terms of the whole model hierarchy in terms of price, power, pace etc. VAG (which apparently isn't a thing) could easily have went the whole hog and stripped the interior out of the Seat Cupra ultimate sub 8, no infotainment, lightweight seats, plastic rear windows etc. done a full R26R job on it and nobody would bat an eyelid if it cost the same and was faster than a Golf R or any other Golf. It's position and purpose would be understood by most.

[CABC]

nunpuncher said:

....And pricing.

What extent would BMW have to go to to make a light weight 1 series or M2? I shudder to think how much more expensive it would be than the Clubsport S. The f2x chassis is clearly pretty heavy and their classic i6 RWD configuration clearly makes for a heavier power/drivetrain so they are almost hobbled from the start in terms of weight reduction. The M2 isn't far off the weight of an M4, they could distance it further with similar carbon roof etc but then price would almost be the same.

The lack of sister brands for BMW makes it very difficult for them in terms of the whole model hierarchy in terms of price, power, pace etc. VAG (which apparently isn't a thing) could easily have went the whole hog and stripped the interior out of the Seat Cupra ultimate sub 8, no infotainment, lightweight seats, plastic rear windows etc. done a full R26R job on it and nobody would bat an eyelid if it cost the same and was faster than a Golf R or any other Golf. It's position and purpose would be understood by most.

light cars need a 4 pot, (even a feisty 3 if light enough). GT-sporty best with a 6. and of course an I6 is quite long. Z4 is a good start if BMW could just spend some effort developing the chassis. right now, sadly, it's a convertible with a badge. I guess they'd argue buy the coupe, which is much better.

[nunpuncher]

A production version of the 125i eBay touring car complete with massive arches.

[NJH]

V10Ace said:

Dan Trent said:

The steering gear is still electric/variable ratio rack but the changes to the suspension hardpoints/hardware, geometry, bushings, anti-roll bars and damper tuning have a much, much bigger influence on the feedback and feel at the wheel than any fiddling with the EPAS calibration. Karsten Schebsdat talked a lot about this in his presentation for the Clubsport Edition 40, which has much of the same hardware and calibration. He was diplomatic but clearly of the opinion the standard set-up is very conservative and geared towards safety understeer while he - through everything from suspension to aero and VAQ calibration - wanted it neutral as a base point, with adjustability beyond that if you go hunting for it. Or in the wet, as you identified from the onboard.

It still doesn't have the front end 'bite' of the Megane, or the instantaneous off-centre response, but it's leagues ahead of anything else based on the MQB platform. Even a 1.4 TSI!

Cheers,

Dan

Nice one Dan

Sounds just the ticket. It begs the question though, what would it take to engineer something approaching this level of immediacy and feel into the wider range, perhaps for the next gen GTI would be nice. Would be a shame for this approach to be a one off.

[Robert Bennett]

Interesting article. The car certainly appears to be an enjoyable and rewarding one to drive. However, I do have a number of significant reservations. On balance I still feel that the Golf R must continue to be the best allround performance Golf, - the 4 wheel drive system giving it superior all weather handling with our British roads and climate. A more rounded and sophisticated product. Still all credit to VW for starting to be a little more adventurous. Hopefully a sign of more things to come in mainstream models.

[Illdriver]

Shame the 1 series bmw (originally a Rover design and bought by bmw from Rover) .. was it the 80's now feels that long.. Made there own car.. now teamed up with Hyundai. Say no more. LMAO
Vw have smashed its simple.. Is Sad theirs a lot of grannys in R's etc to to commen very safe car comparing a bmw.. limited numbers like the CCS. better not on everystreet corner.. like a rover design 1 series