RE: Audi TT RS vs. 718 Cayman S vs. F-Type S Coupe
Discussion
thesmurfs said:
I wonder if the reviewer used manual mode on the TT-RS. It will only go up a gear or down a gear not multiple gears unless that is he's using the paddles multiple times.
Yep, this was in the manual mode and it still did it. AMGs are the same, the A45 (and its variants) being especially tiresome in this regard. Cheers,
Dan
BFleming said:
John A said:
BFleming said:
Old Jags always look outdated.
Outdated, perhaps. Undesirable, no.
Thankfully the problem was fixed on the F-type, but some idiot decided to install a carbuncle in the cockpit:-
Even though I am 52 - and therefore qualified to actually own a Jaaaaaag - I just can't overcome the design flaws. Mole, moley, mooole, mole, mole moley moley moley.......
smilo996 said:
Well it has taken a very long time but finally Dan has been seduced by a large cat and taken from the dark side.
Who knew he could take a Jag over a Porschar but it has happened and rightly so. it is amazing, the strides that Jaguar have made over the past ten years, thoroughly deserved.
Then again those winners who still put their ego's first will take the Porschar even though 90% will never use its potential.
I knew you'd pop up eventually... And your post was again so predicable. Who knew he could take a Jag over a Porschar but it has happened and rightly so. it is amazing, the strides that Jaguar have made over the past ten years, thoroughly deserved.
Then again those winners who still put their ego's first will take the Porschar even though 90% will never use its potential.
I'm not really fussed about which car should be the winner... I'll take a review as guidance rather than gospel, drive my shortlist and buy what's best for me.
So what if people go for the 'Porschar?' Straight question. Why do Porsche and buyers choosing them bother you soooo much?
Re 90% will never use the Caymans full potential, I think we can safely say that for the vast majority. Whatever they are driving.
I can't quite rationalise why people jizz in their pants over the Golf R, but somehow have a real issue with the TT for it's 'golf' underpinnings. Is it just a price thing? I know it was for me when I had the chance of the TTRS a few weeks ago. I just couldn't rationalise the price to a TT - no matter how fast it was.
All 3 of these cars were on my recent list and ironically the personal 'flaws' or compromises for each one, resulted in me actually buying none of them and going for a completely different car segment all together. I think part of that was that I could identify something that didn't sit right with me for each of the cars and in myself I knew those things would niggle during the ownership experience.
But once again, it was great to have the choice. I struggled with the 'what people will think' angle - a symptom of reading this forum I imagine - and this thread very much reads like people who have no chance of any of the cars new (note the "NEW") passing comment as if they are the authority.
All 3 of these cars were on my recent list and ironically the personal 'flaws' or compromises for each one, resulted in me actually buying none of them and going for a completely different car segment all together. I think part of that was that I could identify something that didn't sit right with me for each of the cars and in myself I knew those things would niggle during the ownership experience.
But once again, it was great to have the choice. I struggled with the 'what people will think' angle - a symptom of reading this forum I imagine - and this thread very much reads like people who have no chance of any of the cars new (note the "NEW") passing comment as if they are the authority.
It was obvious from the start that the TT was out of its league here. Ultimately it's a TT, which has always been more coupe than sports car and has never been bought by keen petrolheads. It's a car for the badge-obsessed on a modest budget - successful hairdressers and the like. I can't work out who the RS is aimed at though. Lower league footballers who can't stretch to a Bentley Continental? Is anyone on PH actually looking at that TT and thinking "I need to have one"?
"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
"Golf in a posh frock" might be harsh, but it's pretty fair. The platform is designed to take everything from a sub-100bhp diesel up to the TT RS, and that has to involve compromise. If you really want to get from one corner to the next quickly and without looking too flash, you might as well save yourself £20k and buy a Golf R with DSG and 95% of the performance. The TT is nowhere near special enough.
In a way I'm glad I can't afford the other two, that would be a very tough call.
Again, I think people are strumming the stereotype banjo because 'its cool' to do it.
The previous gen (2009/10?) TTRS - the few that I've seen have actually been owned by mid-twenties lads who are still at home with their folks and have chosen them because they look a little more spesh than a Golf. Admittedly, they were not shopping in the high £60k bracket then, but the ownership demographic was certainly not hairdressers or footballers.
It's never been a sports car - it's a fast a-to-b machine for the point and squirt generation. And ultimately, that's fine!
The previous gen (2009/10?) TTRS - the few that I've seen have actually been owned by mid-twenties lads who are still at home with their folks and have chosen them because they look a little more spesh than a Golf. Admittedly, they were not shopping in the high £60k bracket then, but the ownership demographic was certainly not hairdressers or footballers.
It's never been a sports car - it's a fast a-to-b machine for the point and squirt generation. And ultimately, that's fine!
PhantomPH said:
Again, I think people are strumming the stereotype banjo because 'its cool' to do it.
The previous gen (2009/10?) TTRS - the few that I've seen have actually been owned by mid-twenties lads who are still at home with their folks and have chosen them because they look a little more spesh than a Golf. Admittedly, they were not shopping in the high £60k bracket then, but the ownership demographic was certainly not hairdressers or footballers.
It's never been a sports car - it's a fast a-to-b machine for the point and squirt generation. And ultimately, that's fine!
It's not so much that it's 'cool' to stereotype, it's that the TT in general has a very real problem of being "style" over substance - and I use the word style loosely, since all Audis look as bland as each other to me. That inevitably leads to it being bought by a certain type of person. Probably not the type that visits PH, which is why the article comes across as a strange comparison.The previous gen (2009/10?) TTRS - the few that I've seen have actually been owned by mid-twenties lads who are still at home with their folks and have chosen them because they look a little more spesh than a Golf. Admittedly, they were not shopping in the high £60k bracket then, but the ownership demographic was certainly not hairdressers or footballers.
It's never been a sports car - it's a fast a-to-b machine for the point and squirt generation. And ultimately, that's fine!
It rather resembles one of those forum threads that descends into a "you could buy a used Cayman/911/M3 for that money" affair, where cars are suggested based solely on their price rather than a relevant characteristic of the car itself. It's fine that Audi have decided to make a point-and-squirt car. Notwithstanding that there are many by-the-numbers "lesser" cars that are probably much quicker a-to-b, the price of the TT RS is absurd, and even more so when compared to a Golf R that shares the same platform and would get most people from a-to-b just as quickly. That ridiculous price is the only thing that's seen it enter into comparison with the other cars here.
There are two types of people who will drop £50k+ on a car. Serious enthusiasts who want a suitably focussed car and will stretch their money and perform every bit of man-maths known to humankind, or those with a bit of money. The TT RS isn't special enough to appeal to either of those groups. I can just about see it may be appealing, as a used option, to a 20-something looking for a performance bargain. I still wonder who's going to buy a new one.
renrut said:
Does anyone know how heavy an f type s is? Everyone accuses it of being lardy but are we talking 100kg or 300kg more? None of them are that lightweight being 2 seaters that weight more than most family cars.
Real kerb-weight of an F-Type (any flavour) is >1,700kg. V8's are c. 1,800kg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_F-Type
So a V6 is 300kg more than the (similarly-practical) Porsche, and close to 300kg more than the TT.
B10 said:
The standard V6 Jag (non S) is £51,775.00, so very similar to the other two in pricing.
It would be good to have a road test with the non S V6 version and the other competitors without ANY options. Sadly I think the press cannot control what the manufacturers supply.
Except it would be too slow in the real-world - that's why it doesn't get supplied. 340bhp 2-seater and it can still only manage 200bhp/tonne*...less than a number of recent hot hatches...and less than the non-S 718 Cayman!It would be good to have a road test with the non S V6 version and the other competitors without ANY options. Sadly I think the press cannot control what the manufacturers supply.
I also thought it interesting that the article talks about £60k as a price-point then supplies a car costing £72k with selected options, >£10k more than the two competitors. Or alternatively, at the base-price of ~£50k the article chose to ignore the directly-comparable F-Type V6 and went with bigger brother...
* I actually think 200bhp/tonne, in the right car, is enough power for public roads. Sadly probably not when that car weighs 1,700kg and behaves accordingly...and not when you're paying >£60k for the privilege...
About the Porsche 718 Cayman S Turbo PDK--The 718 Cayman S Manual tested in this article may be a purist preference, but the PDK is the way to go if you want ultimate performance. In a recent instrumentation test conducted by Car & Driver Magazine, it became clear that the new 718 S turbo has been positively transformed by the new turbo flat 4 engine. Rather than paraphrasing what I read, this is the quote from the article:
"One measurable increment in this instance is an improvement in zero-to-60-mph acceleration to 3.6 seconds, fully 0.5 second quicker than our test result for the 2014 Cayman S with PDK. The advantage extends to all our acceleration tests, with the quarter-mile happening in 12.0 seconds at 117 mph, beating the old car by 0.6 second and 5 mph, and the 30-to-50-mph and 50-to-70-mph tasks being completed 0.3 and 0.1 second quicker. Both cars had the launch-control function that generally sees PDK-equipped Porsches outrunning their manual-transmission equivalents that lack that feature. The new car’s advantage in our 5-to-60-mph rolling-start test that obviates launch control’s advantage improved to 4.4 seconds from the old model’s 5.1.
Besides which, the Cayman S responds to throttle inputs superbly, delivering that just-right sensation that one iota more or less pressure on the pedal will result in exactly one iota more or less thrust. Modern electronics can help manage this feeling much better than in the old days of cables and levers, but it requires fine-tuning to make the controls, the engine, and the transmission programming all come together, and Porsche clearly has been painstakingly attentive here."
The 718S PDK is not only as quick at the Audi TTRS but it is also the faster of the two cars, topping off at 178 mph--and the best car not only in this lot but among a dozen top racers including the new Corvette, Lotus Evora 400, and Alfa Romeo 4c. It's not only a rocket, but its handling is absolutely astonishing.
As for the sound of the new turbo, I love it. Here too, purists who are tied down to sounds emanating from aspirated engines need to get over it. The new Porsche 718 S Turbo is Porsche at its best, and it's what this new Porsche sounds like. Take this new turbo to its redline--it loves to redline--you will rapidly here the sound of music as it throws you abruptly into the back of your seat as it accelerates from 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds.
"One measurable increment in this instance is an improvement in zero-to-60-mph acceleration to 3.6 seconds, fully 0.5 second quicker than our test result for the 2014 Cayman S with PDK. The advantage extends to all our acceleration tests, with the quarter-mile happening in 12.0 seconds at 117 mph, beating the old car by 0.6 second and 5 mph, and the 30-to-50-mph and 50-to-70-mph tasks being completed 0.3 and 0.1 second quicker. Both cars had the launch-control function that generally sees PDK-equipped Porsches outrunning their manual-transmission equivalents that lack that feature. The new car’s advantage in our 5-to-60-mph rolling-start test that obviates launch control’s advantage improved to 4.4 seconds from the old model’s 5.1.
Besides which, the Cayman S responds to throttle inputs superbly, delivering that just-right sensation that one iota more or less pressure on the pedal will result in exactly one iota more or less thrust. Modern electronics can help manage this feeling much better than in the old days of cables and levers, but it requires fine-tuning to make the controls, the engine, and the transmission programming all come together, and Porsche clearly has been painstakingly attentive here."
The 718S PDK is not only as quick at the Audi TTRS but it is also the faster of the two cars, topping off at 178 mph--and the best car not only in this lot but among a dozen top racers including the new Corvette, Lotus Evora 400, and Alfa Romeo 4c. It's not only a rocket, but its handling is absolutely astonishing.
As for the sound of the new turbo, I love it. Here too, purists who are tied down to sounds emanating from aspirated engines need to get over it. The new Porsche 718 S Turbo is Porsche at its best, and it's what this new Porsche sounds like. Take this new turbo to its redline--it loves to redline--you will rapidly here the sound of music as it throws you abruptly into the back of your seat as it accelerates from 0-60 mph in 3.6 seconds.
macky17 said:
spikyone said:
I can't work out who the RS is aimed at though. Lower league footballers who can't stretch to a Bentley Continental? Is anyone on PH actually looking at that TT and thinking "I need to have one"?
Lower league footballers' WAGs.When I had a TTS, I bought it knowing what I was getting... it was ok, I would've preferred a Cayman on TTS had much more reasonable running costs. Servicing, tyres and especially extended warranties were far cheaper than the Porsche.
Now the mortgage has gone I have a Cayman S F6 on the drive. A much better car IMO.
There will be those that look at the TT RS and like the whole package it's not for me but don't need to work have a definitive answer to who it's aimed at or why someone would think they need one. It will certainly be cheaper to run than a Cayman or a 911. I'd agree they are expensive now. Before the mk3 TT came out Audi had said they were pushing the TT slightly up marked... that was always going to be question. Even some on the TT forum are questioning an RS @ £60k with the options they would expect. The TT RS is basically a 5 pot trim level.
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