RE: PH 2016- Porsche 911 R vs the world!
Discussion
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
sidesauce said:
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
s off a bunch of people who would have otherwise bought a car from them. Edited by Roma101 on Tuesday 27th December 00:55
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Precisely. In addition to which, the amount of free publicity Porsche are currently getting only helps their bottom line - as someone above posted, a friend of theirs bought other Porsche cars in the range in the hopes of securing an R; as far as the accountants at Porsche are concerned, money made = job done!As always with Porsche less is more.
You can't buy one new, I'm unlikely to get the chance of driving one and even then I'd be scared of driving it to its full potential because of it value (and silly speeds in 2nd gear). I suspect I'd have miles more fun in a lessor Porsche or track day car.
Next ....
You can't buy one new, I'm unlikely to get the chance of driving one and even then I'd be scared of driving it to its full potential because of it value (and silly speeds in 2nd gear). I suspect I'd have miles more fun in a lessor Porsche or track day car.
Next ....
Always look at this and think they raided the parts bin. I also dont understand how so much hype has been generated around this car what makes it so much better than an RS? It has a manual? Big deal. The stripes look awful. Its cars like this that are killing off my interest in anything produced since the 997 4.0.
)Forget the marketing, they are still bloody good cars. The best out there IMO for anything like similar money.
I would not consider a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston at all.
I have a GT4 and it is a truly brilliant car. And no, I have not had a Porsche before. And had never even bought a new car.
I would not consider a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston at all.
I have a GT4 and it is a truly brilliant car. And no, I have not had a Porsche before. And had never even bought a new car.
sidesauce said:
will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them.
My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
spot on.My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
there are passionate engineers in Porsche who believe in their sports cars, but the accountants can view all this media interest around the 911 as halo effect for the mainstream suvs that make the money.
sidesauce said:
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
My main gripe isn't that a manufacturer has determined the size of the market. Quite the opposite. It would be wrong for a firm to over supply the market, in ANY line of business.
Instead, my issue is with the OPC practises, and how they relate to not just this one specific model, but previous form as well. I could be snippy and suggest "so, how did you go getting one of these", but that would be a waste of time, because of the limited supply, which is fine, but more problematic, the hoops you have to navigate with the parasitic OPCs.
So just to be clear, I don't have any problem whatsoever with this car, with Porsche existing to make money, or with them limiting supply to a market size that they believe, which is based on a price point that they also believe the market will bear.
I think that the "R" is an indication what we can expect in the comming years from Porsche, Ferrari etc. The current batch of super/sports cars has pretty much reached the end of the road. Most of these cars are too fast and too efficent for today's world. I think manufacturers are sensing this and will go back to cars that provide and enjoyment rather than beating statistics. So the "R" was a test and we will probably see more manual "drivers cars" in the future as the market will split into "transportation" and "the joy of motoring". Transportation will go all electric and for the people who still like to drive there will be some "low tech" offerings for the week end. Even Ferrari is rumoured to work on a manual car again would you believe. I can't understand the hype about the "R" but if it is a sign of things to come - bring it on.
big_rob_sydney said:
sidesauce said:
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
My main gripe isn't that a manufacturer has determined the size of the market. Quite the opposite. It would be wrong for a firm to over supply the market, in ANY line of business.
Instead, my issue is with the OPC practises, and how they relate to not just this one specific model, but previous form as well. I could be snippy and suggest "so, how did you go getting one of these", but that would be a waste of time, because of the limited supply, which is fine, but more problematic, the hoops you have to navigate with the parasitic OPCs.
So just to be clear, I don't have any problem whatsoever with this car, with Porsche existing to make money, or with them limiting supply to a market size that they believe, which is based on a price point that they also believe the market will bear.
hornbaek said:
I think that the "R" is an indication what we can expect in the comming years from Porsche, Ferrari etc. The current batch of super/sports cars has pretty much reached the end of the road. Most of these cars are too fast and too efficent for today's world. I think manufacturers are sensing this and will go back to cars that provide and enjoyment rather than beating statistics. So the "R" was a test and we will probably see more manual "drivers cars" in the future as the market will split into "transportation" and "the joy of motoring". Transportation will go all electric and for the people who still like to drive there will be some "low tech" offerings for the week end. Even Ferrari is rumoured to work on a manual car again would you believe. I can't understand the hype about the "R" but if it is a sign of things to come - bring it on.
This is a great point too - what's to say that in future, Porsche don't release another/alternate version of the 911R or variance thereof and this was effectively just a 'dry run' to gauge customer reaction? What will people moan about then!? 
sidesauce said:
big_rob_sydney said:
And equally for that reason, I wont be buying any of their product. They and their OPC's with their dubious sales practises can rot in hell for all I care.
I will be buying at least one of their products. The availability, or lack thereof, of a 911R matters not one jot to me as I was never in the market for such a car. I will still gladly buy and enjoy running whatever I end up choosing to buy from them. My situation and viewpoint applies to most of the people who actually buy Porsches offerings. If you and a small minority (and in the greater scheme of things, you and others who share your opinion are NOT an 'enormous amount of people', particularly as 911s are not the main income making model for Porsche) of others want to take a stand, morally or otherwise, by voting with your wallets then fair play to you - have at it! Meanwhile, the people who actually want to own a Porsche, you know, like all those, Cayenne/Macan and Panameras that get bought worldwide every year, will continue to vote with their wallets too as Porsches profits show year on year.
You are free to grumble but as the world turns, Porsche/VAG make money, shareholders are happy and life goes on.
Edited by sidesauce on Tuesday 27th December 00:40
I have tried to buy a 911R and a 997 GT2 RS in both cases to be told, "not possible." I have never owned a Porsche before and, at this rate, never will. I have spent the money on 8C, DB4 and anything else that tickles my fancy that I could actually buy.
By not having me in the showroom for a handover, or in reception for service, the products are never in eyesight of my wife. She won't ever poke around a Cayenne and say, "Let's have one of these next instead of a Merc." Or, "I fancy something for the summer, let's have a Boxster."
I am a car nut, but the only Porsches I would like to buy, I can't. That doesn't seem right. I am not a buyer and therefore not an ambassador and am building no affinity with the dealer or company despite buying a car every year. That statement above, in isolation, seems an odd business situation to be comfortable with.
Edited by WTFWT on Tuesday 27th December 17:07
Wayne58 said:
av185 said:
Single mass flywheel is an option.
Gives the car the all important racing chunter/clatter on idle too.
The chunter and clatter flywheel is dual mass, single mass is just a flywheel.Gives the car the all important racing chunter/clatter on idle too.
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