- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

Author
Discussion

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Squadrone Rosso said:
I liked the 370z and considered one after my Brera, instead of the 86.

I thought the engine was poor & it felt more of a barge than my V6 Q4 Brera.

Nice looking though and a cracking interior.

I think Chris Harris did a comparison once.
The engine really needs a full induction kit and a decent exhaust to get the "full" effect of the engine, otherwise it sounds surprisingly muted for what it is.

And of course, the £1500 or so to do that could be spent to good effect on a GT86 too...

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Sorry to go off the current discussion, but going back to modifications, I thought this video might be of interest to some here who were talking about remaps and tuning.

I am broadly speaking happy with the overall power output of the car, but now I've had it for a few years, would like to do some subtle mods to even out the dip in the torque curve a little and improve the character of the engine a bit, which I agree can be a little lacking. So I'm investigating perhaps a new header and a remap. A new exhaust might come later, but I'm loathe to increase volume, I'd just like a nicer sound, which I gather a header would help with anyway.

I'm not a subscriber to Everyday Driver, but they have done some interesting videos on their long term FRS, and in this one they compare their own (which has a header, exhaust and remap) against a supercharged one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bhnMYvn5S4
I watched this yesterday.


The Supercharged car is quite misleading, in that its very low power compared to the 280whp that most boosted twins are running, which is circa 100whp more than standard, rather than this one which was 240whp?


If i'd spent circa £4000 on a supercharger or turbo kit i'd be pretty annoyed at that figure, considering the capabilities of some of the hardware in that price range:

http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/product_info.p...

http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_108/Category...

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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I suspect you'd only buy the supercharger if you wanted more power but explicitly don't want a turbo.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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daemon said:
Its not all about lap times, i know, but it seems that the 370Z laps the Nurburgring in around 8:11

http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discuss...

And the GT86, around 8:50

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11...
The joy of driving any car isn't necessarily about lap times. Some cars come to life after 8/10, some don't but have other charms.
I'm more impressed what I the driver can do with a car, and how it gives feedback flows. A personal choice i realise.
The Galaxie is very fast around Goodwood, looks pretty hideous really tho no doubt fun for a few laps.
I think 8.50 for a std 86 is ok, on a long fast circuit like the ring the driver must have been right on it.

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Sorry to go off the current discussion, but going back to modifications, I thought this video might be of interest to some here who were talking about remaps and tuning.

I am broadly speaking happy with the overall power output of the car, but now I've had it for a few years, would like to do some subtle mods to even out the dip in the torque curve a little and improve the character of the engine a bit, which I agree can be a little lacking. So I'm investigating perhaps a new header and a remap. A new exhaust might come later, but I'm loathe to increase volume, I'd just like a nicer sound, which I gather a header would help with anyway.
I would recommend a header and remap. Definitely the best bang-for-buck upgrade for performance and general driveability. If you get a UEL header you'll get a classic Subaru burble.

CABC said:
The joy of driving any car isn't necessarily about lap times. Some cars come to life after 8/10, some don't but have other charms.
I'm more impressed what I the driver can do with a car, and how it gives feedback flows. A personal choice i realise.
The Galaxie is very fast around Goodwood, looks pretty hideous really tho no doubt fun for a few laps.
I think 8.50 for a std 86 is ok, on a long fast circuit like the ring the driver must have been right on it.
Standard tyres are pretty low grip on the GT86 too, which hurts lap times. You can add 0.1-0.2g on a skidpan just by putting decent road tyres on it, let alone considering semi-slicks. I don't know what the 370Z comes with, but I'd assume it's something a bit better.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Flibble said:
I would recommend a header and remap. Definitely the best bang-for-buck upgrade for performance and general driveability. If you get a UEL header you'll get a classic Subaru burble..
is that what you did? and nothing else?
interested in header & remap versus header, exhaust & remap.
also final drive an option.
seeking a little more zing and response, but not FI.

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
My dyno chart is UEL header, catback, drop in panel filter (worth doing regardless as they're about 30-40 quid and can give you up to 5 hp).
The lower line is pre-remap, upper is post remap. You can see the torque dip largely eliminated by the header swap, the remap further smooths it out.

I've considered final drive, but other things are a larger concern (oil cooling for on track mostly).

ian2144

1,662 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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Flibble said:
Standard tyres are pretty low grip on the GT86 too, which hurts lap times. You can add 0.1-0.2g on a skidpan just by putting decent road tyres on it, let alone considering semi-slicks. I don't know what the 370Z comes with, but I'd assume it's something a bit better.
The Aero version of the GT86 have 18" wheels with Yokohama Advan 105's .......loads more grip than the standard 17's

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
I'm running 17" Advans and they're a lot better than the standard tyres. The 18" wheels don't really buy you any performance (if anything they hurt it).

Conscript

1,378 posts

120 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Flibble said:
I would recommend a header and remap. Definitely the best bang-for-buck upgrade for performance and general driveability. If you get a UEL header you'll get a classic Subaru burble.
Flibble said:
My dyno chart is UEL header, catback, drop in panel filter (worth doing regardless as they're about 30-40 quid and can give you up to 5 hp).
The lower line is pre-remap, upper is post remap. You can see the torque dip largely eliminated by the header swap, the remap further smooths it out.

I've considered final drive, but other things are a larger concern (oil cooling for on track mostly).
Thanks, yes, that's what I'm considering. The car is due for a service soon at Abbey Motorsport, so I was going to ask for some advice there, but what manifold did you go for? There's quite a few on the market. And is that decatted, or with a sports cat? Sorry if you've already mentioned that...

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
CABC said:
daemon said:
Its not all about lap times, i know, but it seems that the 370Z laps the Nurburgring in around 8:11

http://www.the370z.com/nissan-370z-general-discuss...

And the GT86, around 8:50

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11...
The joy of driving any car isn't necessarily about lap times. Some cars come to life after 8/10, some don't but have other charms.
I'm more impressed what I the driver can do with a car, and how it gives feedback flows. A personal choice i realise.
The Galaxie is very fast around Goodwood, looks pretty hideous really tho no doubt fun for a few laps.
I think 8.50 for a std 86 is ok, on a long fast circuit like the ring the driver must have been right on it.
Yes. Absolutely. The most fun i had around the A roads around where we live has been in a 1.6 litre 1989 MX5 and a Clio 172. Neither would put in a fantastic 'ring lap time.

Just thought it was interesting.

Stev8s

337 posts

182 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Interesting reading this as I just sold my GT86 before Christmas and have bought a 370z the GT86 was a lovely car but the thing for me that let it down more than the power was the build quality too many rattles,panels so thin you can easily dent them just washing it.
The paint was very soft and every time you went for a drive you would come back with a few more stonechips!!I also think the lack of noise outside was a bit off putting it sounded more like an electric car than a sports car as for the 370 totally different ball game if you can stomach the extra fuel consumption and the £500 a year tax (only 250 more than the
Toyota) then its a bloody good car and goes like stink plus built like a tank definitely a good choice

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Thanks, yes, that's what I'm considering. The car is due for a service soon at Abbey Motorsport, so I was going to ask for some advice there, but what manifold did you go for? There's quite a few on the market. And is that decatted, or with a sports cat? Sorry if you've already mentioned that...
Mine is a decatted manifold (second cat in front pipe is sufficient to pass an MOT). It's the 1320 performance manifold, imported from the US. I'm not sure I'd recommend it though as it has cheap flex pipes which whistle annoyingly.

underphil

1,245 posts

209 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
JB! said:
I watched this yesterday.


The Supercharged car is quite misleading, in that its very low power compared to the 280whp that most boosted twins are running, which is circa 100whp more than standard, rather than this one which was 240whp?


If i'd spent circa £4000 on a supercharger or turbo kit i'd be pretty annoyed at that figure, considering the capabilities of some of the hardware in that price range:

http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/product_info.p...

http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_108/Category...
Cosworth did extensive testing, and found the standard rods are only good for about 240whp - there are of course many running more than that, but at a risk

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
If you have 8 million Yen (about £56,000), the JUN car is for sale.
It has a 375 hp bike-based v8 that's lighter than the boxer, with a lower CoG.

http://www.junauto.co.jp/sale/jun-synergy-brz/inde...

LasseV

1,754 posts

132 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
underphil said:
Cosworth did extensive testing, and found the standard rods are only good for about 240whp - there are of course many running more than that, but at a risk
And some reports from fly and some from wheels etc. 240whp is circa the same gain what some kits does promise from the engine. And when we look american videos we must remember that location where the video is made affects quite a lot of engine hp numbers, because of altitude difference.

But i can recommend basic bolt on upgrades even for n/a engine, thats for sure. smile

Edited by LasseV on Wednesday 25th January 12:31


Edited by LasseV on Wednesday 25th January 12:31

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
underphil said:
JB! said:
I watched this yesterday.


The Supercharged car is quite misleading, in that its very low power compared to the 280whp that most boosted twins are running, which is circa 100whp more than standard, rather than this one which was 240whp?


If i'd spent circa £4000 on a supercharger or turbo kit i'd be pretty annoyed at that figure, considering the capabilities of some of the hardware in that price range:

http://www.tuningdevelopments.co.uk/product_info.p...

http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_108/Category...
Cosworth did extensive testing, and found the standard rods are only good for about 240whp - there are of course many running more than that, but at a risk
I'd not be concerned about an extra 40whp, more the torque load on the rods at low RPM, most other UK tuners seem decided on 280-300whp/ 330ish at the crank as the safe tune limit for standard rods?

VX0075

226 posts

170 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
Interesting as I was watching some videos recently from a company called Ring Garage based out by Nurburgring and they rent cars out for the track and they had some GT86's and I wondered why, but reading this thread, I get it...never really considered it a drivers car...I was wrong.

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
JB! said:
I'd not be concerned about an extra 40whp, more the torque load on the rods at low RPM, most other UK tuners seem decided on 280-300whp/ 330ish at the crank as the safe tune limit for standard rods?
Most other tuners just dyno the car and see if it blows up.
Cosworth took the engine out and had it on an engine dyno for hundreds of hours, they also did material analysis and FEA on the rods to determine safe limits. I'd trust their figures over most anyone else.

The issue with the rods is they are sintered, so there's a fairly large variation in strength relative to a forged rod. Cosworth aim their kit so that even people at the weak end will be fine, most others aim for an average to strong rod being fine. If you have a car with weak rods, you're out of luck though...

Double.D

48 posts

86 months

Wednesday 25th January 2017
quotequote all
to me the GT86 and 370z would be like milk and cheese, both are dairy products, both similar in weight, similar price but are completely different. If it came down to choosing one over the other I`d go with the GT86 as the 370 doesn`t appeal to me at all and I reckon with a few mods the 86 might be a little more fun, and a bit of weight stripping wouldn`t do any harm, those rear seats for a start if you have one and find them impracticable