Citroen Saxo VTS.

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Discussion

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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In September 2016, rather impulsively and on a hunch, I bought a Saxo VTS.
I always wanted one ever since owning my first car, a Saxo 1.4 Furio.
One owner, 47,000 miles and a decent amount of MOT is all the convincing I needed and within a month of first hearing about it I handed over £500 and had the keys!
It is a late model so came with all the toys a UK spec Saxo ever did! (RHD never got AirCon). 15 inch alloys, tilt and slide roof, alarm, rear headrests, four airbags, ABS, oil temperature gauge to name a few. While that may not be deemed noteworthy on a modern hot hatch, it was fairly respectable (if not a little spartan) back then! The spec list is not what these little cars were about any how!
This particular car was local from new; a mature owner, never modified, never crashed, sensible colour and most importantly a solid shell! Great then?
Well yes and no..! At this point you are probably picturing a minter? Perhaps maybe one which hasn't seen a bit of love in a while but can be easily brought back up to scratch with a bit of love? The latter would be the kindest description of the state of the car at the moment I handed over my cash, signed the old style blue log book and received the keys!
The paintwork was dreadful, contaminated with old bird lime and iron fillings from the custodians place of work, scratches and scuffs on ever corner and panel, paint peel, flat paint around the fuel filler where spilt and most annoyingly vandal damage to the front wing, both mirrors and tailgate.
Mechanically the car was in better fettle. Bills and evidence of linear yearly services, two timing belt changes, routine work when things broke! The history read pretty well. The mechanic in me however knew that it had just had the work to keep it going, rather than out of love!
The exhaust downpipe was cracked, the engine mounts tired out, front wheel alignment way out, tyres were on budgets at the front and the original Michelin SX GT on the rear!! The locking nut was missing for the wheels to add to the misery!
Here are the pictures when I got it home..!






Now instead of letting on too much regarding its present state, I am going to see how much response I get on this initial post. While not new to forums, I am fairly new to progress threads. I did one on piston heads a while back didn't get much interest; I enjoy reading some updates on here and am an OCD diagnosed individual with a keen interest in detailing so felt this may be a good place to try again!
Let me know your thoughts,
Many Thanks,
Danny.

Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:09

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Progress at first came mostly from removing years of neglect to see what I was up against. As the vital mechanicals were all okay, I didn't feel too silly starting with cleaning jobs! I knew I'd have to do these jobs a million times over before it was anywhere near as clean as I'd hope it to be; however the first time is always the most noticeable and therapeutic!

First up I fitted a new old stock grille I had been dying to fit since I was 17. I bought it when I worked at the Citroen dealer as I had butchered the grille on my Furio and meshed it; as you do! Sold the car with the grille on so the new old stock one had never been fitted before. The black badges were a result of my teenage self, however with the car been black I figured it suited and they stayed.




A coat of bumper and trim gel took years off of the plastic instantly!




I gave the paintwork a treat with a clay bar! I knew this wouldn't be the last time I did so, as the paint was unbelievably contaminated with metal fillings on the bonnet and roof and plastered in tar along the sides. I could not yet see the state of the arches properly as I could not remove the wheels, thanks to the garage which the original owner used whom had rounded off the locking nuts and thrown away the key. This is what came out of the bonnet on the first session..



The difference after the first clay and bumper and trim treatment was evident!




I also got round to giving the interior a minor strip down in order to get any hidden nasties! Carpets cleaned up extremely well; as did the hard wearing velour trim. Sadly the rip in the drivers seat did not clean out..




I love the interior of this car, classically and unmistakably Citroen!
Like a naughty teenager, the owner of this car swore it was never smoked in, however I found evidence to suggest otherwise! Fags in the ashtray enough for you??
Due to my findings I decided to strip the heater vents, soak in soapy water and re assemble!




I removed the hideous gear knob which I presume the original owner plucked from the options list and also the original stereo believe it or not. I've never had one of these units which is able to play a CD without spitting it out; this one was no exception! As I was using this as a daily at the time I popped a Sony bluetooth unit in, which worked a treat. The original was wrapped in cotton wool and kept.
The gear knob is from a Peugeot 106 as some of you may notice. I do have an OE one but thought this looked better, for now at least!
I also found some genuine rubber mats as you may note in the last picture!





After some quick but therapeutic jobs I felt much better about my purchase; a car always feels more yours after the first clean. So while sat there ordering all the history into date order in my newly bought file, I felt I could final start fettling with the car for real. Little did I know just how much fettling lie ahead..!



Danny.

Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:10

Hub

6,431 posts

198 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
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Nice - sounds like a bargain. If you get it up to scratch and keep it standard with the low mileage and good history you have a future classic there which will go up in value as there probably aren't too many unmodified or in decent condition now.

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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A search of howmanyleft.com shows only about 400 are still on the road, can't imagine most of them have less than this example!

NordicCrankShaft

1,723 posts

115 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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My first car was a silvertop 98bhp Saxo VTR and at the time always lusted after a VTS. The ability these car had to show up more expensive exotica around the track was fantastic. There was a group of us in Cardiff that used to do rolling road days. Mine had a powerflow exhaust system and a Kevlar ram air induction system and made 122bhp, I forget the name of the company that made it but it was fking expensive biggrin

There used to be a couple of supercharged ones flying around

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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The progress continued into November 2016.
I got a professional to remove the locking nuts and replaced them with some matching ones I had lying around! I could finally get a proper look at the brakes and the state of the arches etc!



What I found was brand new discs and pads, which was a good start! I promptly stripped and cleaned the brakes. I gave the callipers a quick lick of paint and the suspension struts and backing plates also got a bit of treatment. This was a more of a temporary preservation measure rather than a 'that'll do' job.




I replaced the soggy mount which had caused the delay in power transfer; the problem diagnosed as the bottom gearbox mount. At first the power flex mount was far too stiff causing things to rattle on idle which did not before. Once worn in though I was very impressed with the results. The little rasper was much more responsive!



If only it wasn't for that blowing exhaust.. Well that was next on my list!
I replaced the cracked down pipe (the one which bolts to the hideous cast manifold; which curves round the engine to meet the cat pipe! Catalytic converter is underneath even on a MK2 VTS, unlike the 8V variants which changed to a mani-cat around early 2001). Unfortunately no pictures on this one but what a difference..! The car finally being quiet really dragged into a different league for me; and prepare me to elaborate..
For I have been through the whole model range of Saxo's (1.5D Excluded) and just quite how grown up the VTS feels compared to any other model is quite something! The combination of the more sophisticated 16v engine (and added weight at the front) coupled with them comfy seats and more toys I believe is what gives that illusion! And what an illusion it is; because the power delivery is achieved at much higher revs that the 8v, you tend to forget just how willing and capable this car is in that sweet RPM spot! Naturally aprehensive as I was of the VTS at first; I'm the kind of guy who would choose a 205 1.6 over the 1.9. This car is nuts; and I'm really starting to come round to why the VTS was the one to have!
At this stage, I also found a back box which was much better condition than the one I had fitted! This I do have a picture of.. although rather non specific!



I also did a couple more bits such as these Furio door handles which again gave the little VTS a more premium feel. Why these were never fitted I will never know!



I also did a meticulous strip down of the centre console, replaced all the non working bulbs. Just another little touch again!



I would like to take this opportunity to apologise if you feel there are not as many pictures or details as you would hope! I do a lot in such a short space of time and I have really had to dig hard to find these pictures and remember this information. As I stated at the start of the thread it was September 2016 when I purchased the car and my aim is to bridge the gap and bring you up to speed with current affairs!
This was November 2016; and as the car was a cheap purchase and I only use my other vehicle in summer, the plan was to run it all winter.
As you will find out soon; this did not happen! More to be revealed soon.


(The front plate was a gift which ended up been ordered in the wrong dimensions)

Thanks for reading, Danny.

Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:11

TheD

3,133 posts

199 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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That's a cracking wee motor. I looked at a few before finding one many moons ago. The wife still drives the xsara vts coupe. She loves it and is really nippy. They say it had the same engine as the Golf 6. Anyhooos.....Good luck with the motor

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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Thanks!
Apologies for the images I haven't quite got to grips with the image up loader yet! If you click on the images they become enlarged and there are plenty more. Cheers.

MrAverage

821 posts

127 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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very nearly bought a phase 1 (if thats the correct term) one of these a few years ago, but it had an intermittent abs fault and got turned into a track slag like a lot of these do. i was gutted as they seem like such a laugh. it was hard work finding one a few years back i dont imagine its got any easier.
enjoy it!

Kitchski

6,515 posts

231 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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Great cars in a sort of very-basic, raw no frills type way! An original, unmolested VTS is a rare find! The mk1 will attain modern classic status quicker IMO (and the mk2 is penalised on the VED!) but any standard, original VTS will get there.

My wife's got a 1999, very early ph2 VTR. I put a VTS setup in it about 8 years ago now, best thing I ever did.

Here's a little Go-Pro vid from the beginning of January:

https://youtu.be/BxG8tbu57Qo

f1nn

2,693 posts

192 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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I picked up a brand new black VTS in 2003.

Very, very fond memories of the 3 years I spent in that car.

Great little cars. Holding the revs at 4K in second and flooring it round to the 7400rpm limiter felt rapid at the time. I seem to remember mine having little trouble indicating 140mph, which was probably around the 127mph top speed Citroen reckoned.

A few weeks after I got mine I ran a barely run in 15.4 second quarter mile at York raceway.

Always impressed me that little thing.

Fury RS

463 posts

182 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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Nice find Op.
My first brand new car back in 1997. I seen Clarkson testing one on 90's Top Gear and he rated it back then. I visited a dealer a week or two later outside my works, liked it and bought a 16v VTS in Poseidon Blue, it went well and drove like a roller skate.
I came from a 2wd 320bhp Sapph Cosworth. All my Petrol Head mates and my mrs questioned my logic on why I bought a small car like that but I must say I had 6 months of bloody good fun in it, it cornered like it was on rails And went well considering the light weight of it.
Only picture I can find of it;



Have fun with your find Opsmile

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Tuesday 26th September 2017
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I'll pick up where I left off in the last update; November 2016!
As stated previously the initial plan for this car was to daily it and make sure the mechanicals were all as they seemed while doing little tidying up jobs. With it looking fairly 'doggy' I needed in my own mind to decide wether this little blighter was actually going to be a reliable car worth putting money into; a sort of personal justification process if you like!
Well I was certainly bonding with the car despite its many faults, mainly due to a strong engine and box just as you'd expect from a low miler with one mature owner. However the brakes left a lot to be desired, the much larger servo and ABS certainly gave it a different feel to the VTR, but the discs and pads were quite clearly cheap motor factor ones as they lacked bite and were certainly not confidence inspiring. The suspension also felt a bit tried, I suspect the shocks have never been replaced; the rear beam never touched and while the front springs had been replaced due to necessity there were not of OE quality! Tracking was still miles out too; probably due to a track rod end replacement with no wheel alignment done afterwards. Coupled with the budget front and ancient original fit rear tyres, the drive was still disappointing to say the least!
I knew this car had so much more to give.
Well my mind was about to be made up really! After a fairly uneventful run up to Christmas in the VTS (and another Saxo purchase) I woke up to a flat tyre on the morning of the 25th! The inner sidewall of the budget had a huge spilt it in! Spare wheel on; I set of to continue my day of festivities at a families house. I left a few hours later; pulling up to the road end out of the estate I was surprised to find that my brake pedal went to the floor. Yes; that's right, two Christmas gifts from this bundle of joy!! Can't beat a bit of Christmas Day brake failure! I gingerly continued the short drive home on the handbrake!!
On inspection the next day I found the brake pipe which runs round the bulkhead and disappears underneath the vehicle heading towards the OSR calliper had failed! There was already one copper pipe sticking out of the ABS block, so only a matter of time before another one goes I suppose! I would have to wait to do this repair as my flaring tool was at work!
New Year passed and back to work I went; first thing on my mind was to get this brake pipe made up! Using the old one as a template I made a quick pipe up, and slapped it on. A matter of necessity over anything!
I managed to get the first bleed nipple open after a bit of heat, it was very tender and had lost a bit of shape over the years! Round to the NSF calliper and snap! This happened again on the OSR despite attacking with heat until almost glowing!
I'd really lost my way with this sorry looking, shoe string ran little Citroen; so with other projects and general life on the go and no real reason or motivation to get it going again I parked it up in my lockup and the car wasn't to see light again for another year..! Little did I know the events happening while this car was tucked away would seal this cars fate! But why? and what was that to be?
Stay tuned!

Meanwhile This was the little backup car which was dragged out of hiding and ended up becoming my girlfriends first car!


£200, 70k, local from new, my boss used to take me to work every morning in this exact car when I started my apprenticeship at Citroen!
Lovely bodywork; rotten as a pear as it turned out!


Apologies for the lengthy update with no real pictures; really desperate to bring you guys up to speed with the car and its fate. Lots of pictures and satisfying info coming up..!

Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:13

exgtt

2,067 posts

212 months

Tuesday 26th September 2017
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Excellent little drivers cars these - much like the Ford Puma and just as undervalued. They will have their day.

Offer me the keys of one of these or a modern Turbo charged AWD super hatch for a 50 mile B road bash and it's the flimsy worn out french key I'll be choosing.

Ps just picked up a visually rust free Puma 1.7 for £350. The way the thing clings to the tarmac and the communicative steering/snickety gearbox is deeply joyous.

There's a lot out there sub £1k now that will be much converted in 10 years time.

I'd say you paid about half what it should be worth today and 6 times less than it will be worth in 5-7 years time.

Edited by exgtt on Tuesday 26th September 21:17

Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

179 months

Tuesday 26th September 2017
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Brilliant cars, I love them but I've never had one. I'll have to get a pre-facelift Poseidon Blue one before they get more valuable. That's if there are any left that meet my description!

culpz

4,882 posts

112 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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These has such a cult following back in the day and were really quick for what they were. Finding decent examples is becoming scarce now and they're very much a rarity. I think they could potentially be a future classic and prices of them will probably shoot up.

My only issue is that i've never been a Citroen guy. I've always like my Renaultsport's and more importantly, fast Clio's. So for me, i'd have a Clio 172/182 all day long. As an investment, it'd be a 182 Trophy but i'd be more than happy with a decent standard model.

Jonny_gti

288 posts

80 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Loved these back in the day are just recently started taken a shine to them again, great engines just rev and rev. Rarer now than I thought having a very fast search I seem to find around 7 for sale in the uk at the moment and looking on howmanyleft shows 380 on the road same with the 106 gti. In the next year of 2 they will surely shoot right up in value.

Willo26

Original Poster:

84 posts

109 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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I opened the lock up door, peeled the cover off the car and surprisingly; there was still a Saxo there! Looking exactly how I left it too, bonus! Or err perhaps not because I didn't really leave it in a deserved state and really did feel guilty losing my temper with this little number in the first place. After all this was New Year 2018 and it had spent just short of a year on the naughty step! This was my 'fresh start' to the year, a resolution if you like!
With a new purchase arriving and requiring the lockup space and a Clio already in the garage at home; I needed to start making progress with this little car! It was gonna be a push though for various reasons!
In the year that this car hadn't turned a wheel; I had severed my middle finger in an accident and my hand had just been released from a huge cast after a lengthy and painful tendon operation. I hadn't driven for months (at least thats what I told the doctor) and my hand was a numb painful balloon.
In other news my girlfriend had fallen in love..! No not with another bloke.. Or a another woman!! With a rusty old piece of metal; this rusty old piece of metal to be precise.


Looks much better than it was..

Despite its many (many) faults and being given no love what so ever; she had become smitten. So much so that at 18 years of age she had put it upon herself to show me cheap insurance quotes in a bid to convince me that the unloved piece of French metal that sit in the lockup should be hers; after all I didn't actually have any use for it and the Saxo she was currently using had inner wings which looked like a block of Emmental cheese (and about as much structural rigidity)! Good point; actually! You win.
So bombshell; I gave the car away for free and I'm now writing a post about a car I no longer own! .. I do however work on it; constantly in fact. Much more than my own car! I'm happy to say however she is more than happy to throw money at it! (Not literally, that would be silly)

Anywho, with one working hand and the temperature barely registering above freezing, we swapped the battery, was deafened by the alarm and with flat soggy tyres rolled it out of the garage! The first port of call was to remove both front callipers in preparation to refurbish and clean.
Everything thus far on the car had fought me to the death, from the locking wheel nuts when first purchased to the snapped bleed nipples and countless rounded off captives and bolts along the way; so I expected no less this time round. At least I wasn't too surprised then when I heated rusted on Flexi hose nut and this happened!




The state of the calliper including bleed nipple snapped.




So I took them to work, completely ground them down, replaced rubbers, cleaned sliders, replaced bleed nipple and resealed piston and hey presto..



Both sides completed, I bought some lovely new braided Flexi hoses.
Here is one side after I'd just built it up, unfortunately arch looking fairly unloved after winter use followed by year of sitting!



The clock was ticking, as was the job list slowly. Join me again for more calamities soon!
Thanks for reading, Danny.

Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:14

JRC1

464 posts

105 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Great cars, and great driving experience if a little dangerous from a safety perspective... but that's what makes them so fun! Easy to work on and parts are super cheap.
I think they are pretty timeless and still look great, the negative image, although not as bad now is still a hard one to shift. You say the word 'Saxo' and people seem to cringe but the 106 GTI is considered a classic.
I still have my Polar White VTS.
It's under a dust sheet at the moment and SORN, really need to get a roll cage fitted and take it on track which was my intention when I took it off the road.

240Cup

638 posts

190 months

Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Had a VTR and a VTS back in the day - huge fun, lift off oversteer at will.

made of cheese though :-O