are NA engines fun?
Discussion
VeeFource said:
Aren't big turbo engines that give a top end punch sharing the same doomed fate as n/a? Would have thought the turbo would need to be up and running properly at low revs to harness wasted energy for a hope of passing the ever more stringent emissions tests.
Funny how things go. Awhile ago it looked as if turbos were dead due to concerns about getting cats up to temp, now they are used to give small engines that give low emmissions on test, enough power to satisfy the masses.A big power turbo is a different animal as you say, but engineers seem to be able to get around most things
e21Mark said:
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!PH XKR said:
e21Mark said:
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!I drive a 1.0 NA Skoda Citigo with 59 bhp and 95 Nm. It's surprisingly fun to drive. Yes, you absolutely need to work the gears. And, as NA engines go, this is as small as they come. If you don't work the gears, you're slow. But, if you play the gears right, you can leave a lazy BMW driver who's been tailgating you through a 30 zone looking silly at the transition to NSL . The important thing with NA is to know your torque curve, and use it.
Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.
Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.
Edited by Solocle on Thursday 4th May 19:20
TheDrBrian said:
PH XKR said:
e21Mark said:
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.
550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
PH XKR said:
How do you imagine for a second a highly sprung engine will be euro 6? I mean other than having the ecu tuned for the test cycle? I suppose sports bikes also dont mess around to pass the test?
"highly sprung" Not sure what you are getting at by the rest of your post though, it's either Euro 6 compliant or it isn't.Bikes don't currently get tested for emissions, though I doubt that situation will last much longer.
e8_pack said:
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.
550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.
550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
I've been lucky enough to have a drive of a e39 m5 and it's was fantastic fun, I certainly wouldn't get bored of it, but I also have driven a 2.7tt and the throttle response of that is also pretty instant on it's little k03's with a good remap.
I do love a good turbo engine, and nowadays mapping and a good range of turbos makes it less old school YB where you waited and waited and then had the chair smashed into your back
I'm a tinkerer and the one things that spoils N/A for me is the fact they are so expensive to squeeze BHP out of, plus the noise of a turbo making some proper boost is addictive too.
I do love a good turbo engine, and nowadays mapping and a good range of turbos makes it less old school YB where you waited and waited and then had the chair smashed into your back
I'm a tinkerer and the one things that spoils N/A for me is the fact they are so expensive to squeeze BHP out of, plus the noise of a turbo making some proper boost is addictive too.
Burnzyb said:
I'm a tinkerer and the one things that spoils N/A for me is the fact they are so expensive to squeeze BHP out of, plus the noise of a turbo making some proper boost is addictive too.
True.When I started tinkering with cars, you could make significant power gains with a good set of headers and a better carby.
Replace the cam as well and you could easily have a 20-50% increase.
My 1999 n/a engine has stock ITB's, tubular exhaust manifold, VVT, and an 8,300 rpm redline. And a non-programmable ECU.
There's nothing cheap I can do to make more power - the next step starts with a new ECU, then cams.
(It's just had 1mm oversize valves fitted - 20 of them .)
Solocle said:
I drive a 1.0 NA Skoda Citigo with 59 bhp and 95 Nm. It's surprisingly fun to drive. Yes, you absolutely need to work the gears. And, as NA engines go, this is as small as they come. If you don't work the gears, you're slow. But, if you play the gears right, you can leave a lazy BMW driver who's been tailgating you through a 30 zone looking silly at the transition to NSL . The important thing with NA is to know your torque curve, and use it.
Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.
Were these people aware they were in a race with you when you made them look silly?Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.
Edited by Solocle on Thursday 4th May 19:20
DoYouEvenBoost said:
Were these people aware they were in a race with you when you made them look silly?
Read his post again, he never mentioned a race. Most tailgating tts are unable to look any further forward than the next car, so it's easy to pull away from them then the road opens up, even in a low powered car. This is a frequent occurrence when I'm driving the Smart, dheads tailgating in 30/40 limits but are then seemingly incapable of anticipating an increase in speed as you enter an NSL section.e21Mark said:
Just how quickly can a Citigo do the 30 to 70 dash then? (Assuming you know the torque curve and work the gears obviously!)
Why 30-70mph when a 30mph road is vastly more likely to open up to a single carriageway 60mph road?Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 8th June 10:23
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff