are NA engines fun?

Author
Discussion

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
TheAngryDog said:
I didn't want to look stupid twice hehe
1.) Don't look in a mirror
2.) Don't sell the e39, I'm sure I saw you said you might be looking to. Don't.
hehe

1) I did that already
2) already decided to sell.


Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Sunday 30th April 2017
quotequote all
VeeFource said:
Aren't big turbo engines that give a top end punch sharing the same doomed fate as n/a? Would have thought the turbo would need to be up and running properly at low revs to harness wasted energy for a hope of passing the ever more stringent emissions tests.
Funny how things go. Awhile ago it looked as if turbos were dead due to concerns about getting cats up to temp, now they are used to give small engines that give low emmissions on test, enough power to satisfy the masses.

A big power turbo is a different animal as you say, but engineers seem to be able to get around most things smile

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
I'm betting 9k rev limit in the new GT3 counts as fun.

https://youtu.be/EHFSsdqLntw

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
e21Mark said:
I'm betting 9k rev limit in the new GT3 counts as fun.

https://youtu.be/EHFSsdqLntw
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!

TheDrBrian

5,444 posts

221 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
e21Mark said:
I'm betting 9k rev limit in the new GT3 counts as fun.

https://youtu.be/EHFSsdqLntw
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!
The Porsche is euro 6.

Solocle

3,247 posts

83 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
I drive a 1.0 NA Skoda Citigo with 59 bhp and 95 Nm. It's surprisingly fun to drive. Yes, you absolutely need to work the gears. And, as NA engines go, this is as small as they come. If you don't work the gears, you're slow. But, if you play the gears right, you can leave a lazy BMW driver who's been tailgating you through a 30 zone looking silly at the transition to NSL laugh. The important thing with NA is to know your torque curve, and use it.
Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 4th May 19:20

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
TheDrBrian said:
PH XKR said:
e21Mark said:
I'm betting 9k rev limit in the new GT3 counts as fun.

https://youtu.be/EHFSsdqLntw
That's cute, it counted as fun in my s2000 nearly 20 years ago too!
The Porsche is euro 6.
bks it is, it will have a tune to flat spot at the test ranges, also ooooh euro 6

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
Again in English?

PH XKR

1,761 posts

101 months

Thursday 4th May 2017
quotequote all
e21Mark said:
Again in English?
How do you imagine for a second a highly sprung engine will be euro 6? I mean other than having the ecu tuned for the test cycle? I suppose sports bikes also dont mess around to pass the test?


e8_pack

1,384 posts

180 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
quotequote all
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.

550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.
I should imagine it would be, however the power delivery and balance on track would be frustrating and terrifyingly pointless.

MorganP104

2,605 posts

129 months

Sunday 4th June 2017
quotequote all
The thing that strikes you about a large capacity naturally aspirated engine is how immediate the throttle response is.

Getting off the line swiftly in my NA 4.4 V8 Range Rover never fails to amuse. biggrin

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Monday 5th June 2017
quotequote all
PH XKR said:
How do you imagine for a second a highly sprung engine will be euro 6? I mean other than having the ecu tuned for the test cycle? I suppose sports bikes also dont mess around to pass the test?
"highly sprung" rofl Not sure what you are getting at by the rest of your post though, it's either Euro 6 compliant or it isn't.

Bikes don't currently get tested for emissions, though I doubt that situation will last much longer.

jontysafe

2,351 posts

177 months

Monday 5th June 2017
quotequote all
e8_pack said:
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.

550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.
I should imagine it would be, however the power delivery and balance on track would be frustrating and terrifyingly pointless.
Yes because you often hear of race drivers complaining of 'too much power'! I'm joshing as you're probably right but would be an interesting race!

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Monday 5th June 2017
quotequote all
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
jontysafe said:
e8_pack said:
I have a GTR running 620hp and a 911 turbo. Both are slow compared to my all motor 2.0 Duratec Westfield running 270+hp.

550kg, revving to 9k. The induction noise and throttle response is addictive and the engine characteristics give it immense balance on track. In the right package they are far superior.
You should try 600bhp odd in the Westfield. Now that kinda power to weight is brain scrambling. I love turbo power delivery.
I should imagine it would be, however the power delivery and balance on track would be frustrating and terrifyingly pointless.
Yes because you often hear of race drivers complaining of 'too much power'! I'm joshing as you're probably right but would be an interesting race!
Sometime terrifying is the point wink

Burnzyb

300 posts

176 months

Tuesday 6th June 2017
quotequote all
I've been lucky enough to have a drive of a e39 m5 and it's was fantastic fun, I certainly wouldn't get bored of it, but I also have driven a 2.7tt and the throttle response of that is also pretty instant on it's little k03's with a good remap.

I do love a good turbo engine, and nowadays mapping and a good range of turbos makes it less old school YB where you waited and waited and then had the chair smashed into your back smile

I'm a tinkerer and the one things that spoils N/A for me is the fact they are so expensive to squeeze BHP out of, plus the noise of a turbo making some proper boost is addictive too.

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Tuesday 6th June 2017
quotequote all
Burnzyb said:
I'm a tinkerer and the one things that spoils N/A for me is the fact they are so expensive to squeeze BHP out of, plus the noise of a turbo making some proper boost is addictive too.
True.
When I started tinkering with cars, you could make significant power gains with a good set of headers and a better carby.
Replace the cam as well and you could easily have a 20-50% increase.

My 1999 n/a engine has stock ITB's, tubular exhaust manifold, VVT, and an 8,300 rpm redline. And a non-programmable ECU.
There's nothing cheap I can do to make more power - the next step starts with a new ECU, then cams.

(It's just had 1mm oversize valves fitted - 20 of them frown.)

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Tuesday 6th June 2017
quotequote all
I've just spent several £K's to get 240 brake from the s14/2.3 in my E30 M3. All I can say is it's quality not quantity! smile


DoYouEvenBoost

87 posts

82 months

Wednesday 7th June 2017
quotequote all
Solocle said:
I drive a 1.0 NA Skoda Citigo with 59 bhp and 95 Nm. It's surprisingly fun to drive. Yes, you absolutely need to work the gears. And, as NA engines go, this is as small as they come. If you don't work the gears, you're slow. But, if you play the gears right, you can leave a lazy BMW driver who's been tailgating you through a 30 zone looking silly at the transition to NSL laugh. The important thing with NA is to know your torque curve, and use it.
Of course, a lot of fun can be had around corners. Engine power has no real bearing on this, and the Citigo handles beautifully (although its the only car I've ever driven since the L plates), but I've gone faster round corners than people in "faster" cars have by some margin. And, on one occasion, much faster than I would drive around it... but that's another story.

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 4th May 19:20
Were these people aware they were in a race with you when you made them look silly?

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Thursday 8th June 2017
quotequote all
Just how quickly can a Citigo do the 30 to 70 dash then? (Assuming you know the torque curve and work the gears obviously!)

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Thursday 8th June 2017
quotequote all
DoYouEvenBoost said:
Were these people aware they were in a race with you when you made them look silly?
Read his post again, he never mentioned a race. Most tailgating tts are unable to look any further forward than the next car, so it's easy to pull away from them then the road opens up, even in a low powered car. This is a frequent occurrence when I'm driving the Smart, dheads tailgating in 30/40 limits but are then seemingly incapable of anticipating an increase in speed as you enter an NSL section.

e21Mark said:
Just how quickly can a Citigo do the 30 to 70 dash then? (Assuming you know the torque curve and work the gears obviously!)
Why 30-70mph when a 30mph road is vastly more likely to open up to a single carriageway 60mph road?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 8th June 10:23