E36 M3 S50B30 Vanos Delete
Discussion
hi all
im knew to the BMW world so any info would be great
just got myself a S50 converted compact, think it might have some Vanos issues in that it is very jumpy at low speeds and lumpy at idle, and when cruising it sometimes seems like it missfires or stutters on/off
so im thinking rebuild vanos or delete it and fit a set of cams, what you reckon ?
can the oem ecu be reflashed and mapped to suit the vanos delete and cams or will i need to get an after market one ?
does anyone have any good links to vanos rebuild posts ?
cheers
Finlay
im knew to the BMW world so any info would be great
just got myself a S50 converted compact, think it might have some Vanos issues in that it is very jumpy at low speeds and lumpy at idle, and when cruising it sometimes seems like it missfires or stutters on/off
so im thinking rebuild vanos or delete it and fit a set of cams, what you reckon ?
can the oem ecu be reflashed and mapped to suit the vanos delete and cams or will i need to get an after market one ?
does anyone have any good links to vanos rebuild posts ?
cheers
Finlay
Edited by Finlay007 on Tuesday 18th April 15:56
HI
The only reason delete vanos is use of aftermarket ecu which is not able to properly control it .. vanos.. i can't think why would you like delete it .
there is massive torque curve shape difference without vanos. just find a problem there is dosen different reasons for behaviour you just described not necessary is a vanos.
decent aftermarket ecu will help with issues like maf problems ...
The only reason delete vanos is use of aftermarket ecu which is not able to properly control it .. vanos.. i can't think why would you like delete it .
there is massive torque curve shape difference without vanos. just find a problem there is dosen different reasons for behaviour you just described not necessary is a vanos.
decent aftermarket ecu will help with issues like maf problems ...
you can run vanos and bigger cams ( i am doing it) i see no reason to remove it unless you want huge cams in which case you will need a shim under and it will drive like a dog low down anyway.
You need to figure out the fault, get a copy of DIS and run the vanos tests on expected angle etc and see whats what.
if its a 3.0 then you will need a proper ADS interface to get it to talk to the diagnostics.
You can map all the standard eci's to do whatever you want, the man for the job is Wayne at chipwizards
If the vanos is faulty you can do some less invasive processes, check the pressure is hitting 100bar hot and does not fall off when advance and retarding , this would be a likely failed accumulator, you can adjust the pressure in the regulator easily to get it back on target if required. changing the solenoid seals is also a common fix and is a simple non invasive process.
Besian systems have a full repair kit and process for the entire unit.
You need to figure out the fault, get a copy of DIS and run the vanos tests on expected angle etc and see whats what.
if its a 3.0 then you will need a proper ADS interface to get it to talk to the diagnostics.
You can map all the standard eci's to do whatever you want, the man for the job is Wayne at chipwizards
If the vanos is faulty you can do some less invasive processes, check the pressure is hitting 100bar hot and does not fall off when advance and retarding , this would be a likely failed accumulator, you can adjust the pressure in the regulator easily to get it back on target if required. changing the solenoid seals is also a common fix and is a simple non invasive process.
Besian systems have a full repair kit and process for the entire unit.
Edited by IainWhy on Friday 28th April 01:35
Don't delete the vanos.
Several things:
1. Check all air hoses beneath the plenum.
2. Check ICV and all hoses associated. These decay with age and can have hard to spot leaks. Take them off and inspect visually, they'll probably disintegrate.
3. Take out the vanos solenoids. Remove the built in plastic filter rings.
4. Replace the vanos solenoid O rings. You have several choices. 1. Put viton ones in 2. Put e39 M5 ones in or 3. Put standard BMW buna ones in. I've done all of these and the best conclusion I can come to for an older worn vanos unit is use the standard bmw ones and budget replacing them every 6-12 months depending on use.
5. Replace the cap bolts on the vanos solenoid covers. They shear and you'll lose all your oil very quickly.
6. Get the codes read. All the above are maintenance items regardless of codes.
Several things:
1. Check all air hoses beneath the plenum.
2. Check ICV and all hoses associated. These decay with age and can have hard to spot leaks. Take them off and inspect visually, they'll probably disintegrate.
3. Take out the vanos solenoids. Remove the built in plastic filter rings.
4. Replace the vanos solenoid O rings. You have several choices. 1. Put viton ones in 2. Put e39 M5 ones in or 3. Put standard BMW buna ones in. I've done all of these and the best conclusion I can come to for an older worn vanos unit is use the standard bmw ones and budget replacing them every 6-12 months depending on use.
5. Replace the cap bolts on the vanos solenoid covers. They shear and you'll lose all your oil very quickly.
6. Get the codes read. All the above are maintenance items regardless of codes.
that graph indicates to me that it is not advancing.
As i said previously you need to properly hook it up or you will be shooting in the dark to some degree.
The 3.0 is difficult to diagnose, you cannot, i repeat cannot use a scanner, it will not work, ever.
You must have an ADS connection on a true serial port. you need DIS.
You can check the timing marks on the cams as a start but it needs a vanos test to tell you what is happening.
PS if thats flywheel power you are down a good bit more than 50hp, Have you done the valve clearances?
As i said previously you need to properly hook it up or you will be shooting in the dark to some degree.
The 3.0 is difficult to diagnose, you cannot, i repeat cannot use a scanner, it will not work, ever.
You must have an ADS connection on a true serial port. you need DIS.
You can check the timing marks on the cams as a start but it needs a vanos test to tell you what is happening.
PS if thats flywheel power you are down a good bit more than 50hp, Have you done the valve clearances?
long overdue update
rebuilt vanos with new seal kit and tested solinoids, found 1 solinoid not operating so carried out some VMC inspections, found a short over the earthing for one of the solinoids, got a bridging wire soldered in, buttoned everything back up, all good, 296 bhp
that was about 6months ago
now im back to power loss again like before and now its leaning out after 5K along with power loss, seriously thinking of going back to original idea of Vanos delete, i have a SCS ECU sitting waiting to be used, just want a reliable engine, everything just getting abit old, wiring, sensors etc gonna be a struggle to keep going over the on comming years
do i go S54 ?
my S50 is in a mint E30 wagon which im not going to sell, thinking of long term here on the S54 idea
rebuilt vanos with new seal kit and tested solinoids, found 1 solinoid not operating so carried out some VMC inspections, found a short over the earthing for one of the solinoids, got a bridging wire soldered in, buttoned everything back up, all good, 296 bhp
that was about 6months ago
now im back to power loss again like before and now its leaning out after 5K along with power loss, seriously thinking of going back to original idea of Vanos delete, i have a SCS ECU sitting waiting to be used, just want a reliable engine, everything just getting abit old, wiring, sensors etc gonna be a struggle to keep going over the on comming years
do i go S54 ?
my S50 is in a mint E30 wagon which im not going to sell, thinking of long term here on the S54 idea
up to you, there are plenty of issues with the s54 including vanos, suspect rod bearings and head gasket failure. in general i would suggest that the s50 is at least as reliable as the s54.
The vanos is not a complex system, once properly rebuilt it will give years of trouble free motoring, particularly the 3.0 as its half the complexity of the evo.
Once again you need to plug it in but leaning out will likely be the tps (which is a service item) or a failing injector.
The vanos is not a complex system, once properly rebuilt it will give years of trouble free motoring, particularly the 3.0 as its half the complexity of the evo.
Once again you need to plug it in but leaning out will likely be the tps (which is a service item) or a failing injector.
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