I love my car, but worth dying for.....?
Discussion
tomjol said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Heaven help us if Britains are ever called up for national service again 
I've been to America loads of times and I feel considerably safer in the Bronx than I do Manchester.
You might feel that way, but you'd be wrong.I've been to America loads of times and I feel considerably safer in the Bronx than I do Manchester.
Especially if I was a woman. Which I might be at weekends. Jk.
SlimJim16v said:
b
ks!
All it did was prevent law abiding people from pursuing a hobby. That nut should never have had his certificate renewed. Criminals don't waith months/years and pass several checks to acquire a gun legally. Gun crime has also risen since.
Compare our gun crime to the USA. There is simply no comparison.ks! All it did was prevent law abiding people from pursuing a hobby. That nut should never have had his certificate renewed. Criminals don't waith months/years and pass several checks to acquire a gun legally. Gun crime has also risen since.
I love guns too. It used to be my dads hobby aswell, when it was legal. He passed that passion over to me and it is a shame that i cannot experience it in the same way that he did.
It's not hard to get hold of a gun, let's be honest. All i was getting at was that I'm glad that our bobbies aren't armed up to their teeth and prepared to shoot for a minor or zero offence, like they do over the water.
Zetec-S said:
No one knows how they'll react in that situation until it happens.
Some do & some don't. That's like saying medical staff don't know what to do when they see a trauma patient.I'll never grasp why that is so hard for some to understand.
Extreme example, but If someone were trying to take your baby away, would you let them, or do everything you could using anything that wasn't nailed down to hit them with? Can you honsetly say you wouldn't know how you would react? I doubt you will find anyone who says "Ah well, I have another kid, I'll just call the police and let the baby snatcher drive off for now"
Some will defend their car, their shed, their pets and their garden plants in the exact same way.
Each time we get a topic such as this where someone dares to suggest they would do as the poor chap who died did and investigate or fight back etc, "keyboard warrior" and "internet hardman" talk rears its head.
The only reason I couldn't say how I would react these days is simply because I'm older. I know exactly how I would have reacted ten or twenty years ago because I have tales to tell of such things.
I only have to walk across the road and visit my neighbour to give you the perfect example of someone who will do anything required to stop you.
These people exist and many of them keep tools around the house and in the car for such experiences.
So, my point was, had this guy survived and posted here saying he ran out to confront them , he too would have gained the label of internet hardman from some posters.
I would imagine, however, if it were your car being stolen and he ran out and stopped them, he would be a hero.
Digby said:
Some do & some don't. That's like saying medical staff don't know what to do when they see a trauma patient.
That may not be quite the right analogy, though, as medical staff are trained to know what to do when they see a trauma patient, just as a policeman is trained to know what to do when they see a crime in progress.I expect an average member of the public rudely awakened in the middle of the night might well act quite unpredictably if confronted with a trauma patient.
InitialDave said:
That may not be quite the right analogy, though, as medical staff are trained to know what to do when they see a trauma patient, just as a policeman is trained to know what to do when they see a crime in progress.
I expect an average member of the public rudely awakened in the middle of the night might well act quite unpredictably if confronted with a trauma patient.
My point is (as I'm sure you are aware) is that some people do know how they will react.I expect an average member of the public rudely awakened in the middle of the night might well act quite unpredictably if confronted with a trauma patient.
I know how I would react if I saw someone with their finger ripped off for example, yet I have no training
Digby said:
My point is (as I'm sure you are aware) is that some people do know how they will react.
I know how I would react if I saw someone with their finger ripped off for example, yet I have no training
Yes, that's fair enough, though I don't think it's unreasonable for the generalisations (as opposed to people saying what they/people they know personally would do) to reflect the general population, and I think most people don't think too much about what they'd do until they found themselves thrust into the situation.I know how I would react if I saw someone with their finger ripped off for example, yet I have no training
Digby said:
Some do & some don't. That's like saying medical staff don't know what to do when they see a trauma patient.
I'll never grasp why that is so hard for some to understand.
Extreme example, but If someone were trying to take your baby away, would you let them, or do everything you could using anything that wasn't nailed down to hit them with? Can you honsetly say you wouldn't know how you would react? I doubt you will find anyone who says "Ah well, I have another kid, I'll just call the police and let the baby snatcher drive off for now"
Some will defend their car, their shed, their pets and their garden plants in the exact same way.
Each time we get a topic such as this where someone dares to suggest they would do as the poor chap who died did and investigate or fight back etc, "keyboard warrior" and "internet hardman" talk rears its head.
The only reason I couldn't say how I would react these days is simply because I'm older. I know exactly how I would have reacted ten or twenty years ago because I have tales to tell of such things.
I only have to walk across the road and visit my neighbour to give you the perfect example of someone who will do anything required to stop you.
These people exist and many of them keep tools around the house and in the car for such experiences.
So, my point was, had this guy survived and posted here saying he ran out to confront them , he too would have gained the label of internet hardman from some posters.
I would imagine, however, if it were your car being stolen and he ran out and stopped them, he would be a hero.
If they are stealing they are not hurting. Let them continue stealing. they will soon go. Nothing bought on a credit card etc is worth fighting for . Family etc, thats different .But then again it wont be a "fight" for some .It will be the difference between life and death . No bell after 4 mins etc .No bouncers to break it all upI. its raw nature that could mean ripping a face off with a bottle etc . I never ever want to find out if I could do that even though I would want to . I'll never grasp why that is so hard for some to understand.
Extreme example, but If someone were trying to take your baby away, would you let them, or do everything you could using anything that wasn't nailed down to hit them with? Can you honsetly say you wouldn't know how you would react? I doubt you will find anyone who says "Ah well, I have another kid, I'll just call the police and let the baby snatcher drive off for now"
Some will defend their car, their shed, their pets and their garden plants in the exact same way.
Each time we get a topic such as this where someone dares to suggest they would do as the poor chap who died did and investigate or fight back etc, "keyboard warrior" and "internet hardman" talk rears its head.
The only reason I couldn't say how I would react these days is simply because I'm older. I know exactly how I would have reacted ten or twenty years ago because I have tales to tell of such things.
I only have to walk across the road and visit my neighbour to give you the perfect example of someone who will do anything required to stop you.
These people exist and many of them keep tools around the house and in the car for such experiences.
So, my point was, had this guy survived and posted here saying he ran out to confront them , he too would have gained the label of internet hardman from some posters.
I would imagine, however, if it were your car being stolen and he ran out and stopped them, he would be a hero.
let them do what they want if you have family and the scum are in your property etc. Even shouting to tell them you have kids .many of the scum have Morals about wanting to be in the dock and a child has been killed /hurt etc .
brianashley said:
If they are stealing they are not hurting. Let them continue stealing. they will soon go. Nothing bought on a credit card etc is worth fighting for . Family etc, thats different .
I agree, I'm simply saying the reaction some have when their family are in danger can be the same reaction others will have if you try to uproot their pogonias in the middle of the night. I may suggest it's rather risky and silly, but I wouldn't suggest they were acting as an internet hardman should they post about the incident. I would just accept that we are all different.If the scum are gonna start nicking keys from our homes, then surely we need to find ways of remotely disabling cars after they have been nicked in order to discourage, or at least make it harder for them to use/profit from them after they have initially nicked them?
We already do this with 600 quid mobile phones after all.
If the manufactures where to introduce more measures which would discourage scum from taking cars then we would surely be in a better position. i.e
Mandatory OEM tracker on all cars over X pounds?
passkey/biometric entry/start?
Remote brick of the ECU?
Remote (controlled) shutdown/limp mode?
None of the above is beyond our technical reach.
We already do this with 600 quid mobile phones after all.
If the manufactures where to introduce more measures which would discourage scum from taking cars then we would surely be in a better position. i.e
Mandatory OEM tracker on all cars over X pounds?
passkey/biometric entry/start?
Remote brick of the ECU?
Remote (controlled) shutdown/limp mode?
None of the above is beyond our technical reach.
I am not sure how I would react, I suppose it depends on what is triggered in the brain. Family and sentimental items will probably spark a different reaction to a camera. However, what people see as important is likely to be different from others.
The poor guy who was killed reacted in a way others wouldn't but at that point of time he was in the haze that comes with things like this. Who really knows if he was trying to stop the car or was, unfortunately, in the way and run over.
Some may be in a position to retaliate, others may not be. Those that are hurt don't necessarily put themselves in the way of danger but are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The poor guy who was killed reacted in a way others wouldn't but at that point of time he was in the haze that comes with things like this. Who really knows if he was trying to stop the car or was, unfortunately, in the way and run over.
Some may be in a position to retaliate, others may not be. Those that are hurt don't necessarily put themselves in the way of danger but are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
caymanbill said:
If the scum are gonna start nicking keys from our homes, then surely we need to find ways of remotely disabling cars after they have been nicked in order to discourage, or at least make it harder for them to use/profit from them after they have initially nicked them?
We already do this with 600 quid mobile phones after all.
If the manufactures where to introduce more measures which would discourage scum from taking cars then we would surely be in a better position. i.e
Mandatory OEM tracker on all cars over X pounds?
passkey/biometric entry/start?
Remote brick of the ECU?
Remote (controlled) shutdown/limp mode?
None of the above is beyond our technical reach.
no but its rather retarded We already do this with 600 quid mobile phones after all.
If the manufactures where to introduce more measures which would discourage scum from taking cars then we would surely be in a better position. i.e
Mandatory OEM tracker on all cars over X pounds?
passkey/biometric entry/start?
Remote brick of the ECU?
Remote (controlled) shutdown/limp mode?
None of the above is beyond our technical reach.
lets take em in order
1 oh yes lets have less freedom and be tracked everywhere wonderful idea
2 Ican see the news now carjackers hack off car owners hand to steal car or beat him till he gives them his password
3 cars get hacked all over uk
4 same as 3
I take you read the daily male a lot ?
Edited by optimate on Friday 28th April 16:20
Digby said:
Zetec-S said:
No one knows how they'll react in that situation until it happens.
Some do & some don't. That's like saying medical staff don't know what to do when they see a trauma patient.I'll never grasp why that is so hard for some to understand.
Extreme example, but If someone were trying to take your baby away, would you let them, or do everything you could using anything that wasn't nailed down to hit them with? Can you honsetly say you wouldn't know how you would react? I doubt you will find anyone who says "Ah well, I have another kid, I'll just call the police and let the baby snatcher drive off for now"
Some will defend their car, their shed, their pets and their garden plants in the exact same way.
Each time we get a topic such as this where someone dares to suggest they would do as the poor chap who died did and investigate or fight back etc, "keyboard warrior" and "internet hardman" talk rears its head.
The only reason I couldn't say how I would react these days is simply because I'm older. I know exactly how I would have reacted ten or twenty years ago because I have tales to tell of such things.
I only have to walk across the road and visit my neighbour to give you the perfect example of someone who will do anything required to stop you.
These people exist and many of them keep tools around the house and in the car for such experiences.
So, my point was, had this guy survived and posted here saying he ran out to confront them , he too would have gained the label of internet hardman from some posters.
I would imagine, however, if it were your car being stolen and he ran out and stopped them, he would be a hero.
I stand by my comment, unless you've been in the situation you don't know how you'll react. Yes, planning or training for an event will help your reaction, but not guarantee it. I'm sure despite extensive medical training there are occasions when doctors/paramedics/surgeons are overwhelmed by a situation and struggle to cope. In the event of 3 blokes breaking into your home armed with knives, hammers and crowbars there's a strong possibility that whatever 'plan' you have in place will go out the window.
My reference to internet hardmen is not directed at specific posters on this or any other thread. I'm sure plenty of the stories people come out with are true, but undoubtedly some are complete bulls
t. As its an anonymous forum there's no way to verify, and as it's the internet you need to take everything with a pinch of salt.FWIW, anyone who confronts scum like this should be commended, just very sad in this instance it ended in tragedy.
caymanbill said:
If the scum are gonna start nicking keys from our homes, then surely we need to find ways of remotely disabling cars after they have been nicked in order to discourage, or at least make it harder for them to use/profit from them after they have initially nicked them?
I bought a £35 GPS tracker from Amazon to fit to one fo my cars, and supposedly it does that. You can send it a text (it's sim card based) and it'll cut a circuit you've wired it into - so ignition, fuel, something that fires raw sewage into the driver's face, whatever.Zetec-S said:
Digby said:
Zetec-S said:
No one knows how they'll react in that situation until it happens.
Some do & some don't. That's like saying medical staff don't know what to do when they see a trauma patient.I'll never grasp why that is so hard for some to understand.
Extreme example, but If someone were trying to take your baby away, would you let them, or do everything you could using anything that wasn't nailed down to hit them with? Can you honsetly say you wouldn't know how you would react? I doubt you will find anyone who says "Ah well, I have another kid, I'll just call the police and let the baby snatcher drive off for now"
Some will defend their car, their shed, their pets and their garden plants in the exact same way.
Each time we get a topic such as this where someone dares to suggest they would do as the poor chap who died did and investigate or fight back etc, "keyboard warrior" and "internet hardman" talk rears its head.
The only reason I couldn't say how I would react these days is simply because I'm older. I know exactly how I would have reacted ten or twenty years ago because I have tales to tell of such things.
I only have to walk across the road and visit my neighbour to give you the perfect example of someone who will do anything required to stop you.
These people exist and many of them keep tools around the house and in the car for such experiences.
So, my point was, had this guy survived and posted here saying he ran out to confront them , he too would have gained the label of internet hardman from some posters.
I would imagine, however, if it were your car being stolen and he ran out and stopped them, he would be a hero.
I stand by my comment, unless you've been in the situation you don't know how you'll react. Yes, planning or training for an event will help your reaction, but not guarantee it. I'm sure despite extensive medical training there are occasions when doctors/paramedics/surgeons are overwhelmed by a situation and struggle to cope. In the event of 3 blokes breaking into your home armed with knives, hammers and crowbars there's a strong possibility that whatever 'plan' you have in place will go out the window.
My reference to internet hardmen is not directed at specific posters on this or any other thread. I'm sure plenty of the stories people come out with are true, but undoubtedly some are complete bulls
t. As its an anonymous forum there's no way to verify, and as it's the internet you need to take everything with a pinch of salt.I mentioned before my neighbour was happy to go outside and fight 'travellers' for taking items from a skip for example. When they said they would come back (which they did) he went out to fight them again.
I can ask him what he would do if you tried to steal his car, but I think the answer would be rather obvious.
He's not alone. There are millions like him. When trouble comes, they fight back.
Zetec-S said:
My reference to internet hardmen is not directed at specific posters on this or any other thread. I'm sure plenty of the stories people come out with are true, but undoubtedly some are complete bullst
tZetec-S said:
at the all the internet hardmen emerging on heret like that? 
InitialDave said:
Yes, that's fair enough, though I don't think it's unreasonable for the generalisations (as opposed to people saying what they/people they know personally would do) to reflect the general population, and I think most people don't think too much about what they'd do until they found themselves thrust into the situation.
Agree. It just frustrates me that labels start to be thrown around when you dare mention anything other than hiding in a cupboard.Carlson W6 said:
You guys all know that there are real hardmen out there don't you?
And that some of them know how to work the internet and like cars too?
You're right. There is nothing to suggest that the poor guy in the initial story wasn't extremely physically able to take care of himsel. I think the point is that it's not about how hard you are. It's about being ready for the brutality and desperation of some of these gangs.And that some of them know how to work the internet and like cars too?
Im not saying don't do it. I'm saying do it with your eyes open and understand you may be dealing with 4 armed thugs who are quite prepared to seriously hurt or kill.
Hungrymc said:
You're right. There is nothing to suggest that the poor guy in the initial story wasn't extremely physically able to take care of himsel. I think the point is that it's not about how hard you are. It's about being ready for the brutality and desperation of some of these gangs.
Im not saying don't do it. I'm saying do it with your eyes open and understand you may be dealing with 4 armed thugs who are quite prepared to seriously hurt or kill.
Agreed. I read lots of books about local gangs, some of them actually written by said individuals. Some of what goes on is shocking and you would be on a death wish to get involved. It really is a way of life for these people, a parallel universe that most people will never know about or see. And even if you are the hardest bloke in your town, you can't outrun a bullet.Im not saying don't do it. I'm saying do it with your eyes open and understand you may be dealing with 4 armed thugs who are quite prepared to seriously hurt or kill.
TameRacingDriver said:
Agreed. I read lots of books about local gangs, some of them actually written by said individuals. Some of what goes on is shocking and you would be on a death wish to get involved. It really is a way of life for these people, a parallel universe that most people will never know about or see. And even if you are the hardest bloke in your town, you can't outrun a bullet.
The problem a lot of people are faced with is say 2 of these scrotes burst into the house, looking for your keys. You end up dominating the stairs then seriously injuring one of them. You would be left with the thought are they going to come back for you? Do they send someone else back for you.
Most of these ones that go out robbing cars are going to be low level criminals because its pretty high risk, low reward stuff but do you really want to chance it.
[quote=caelite]Yet if you raise any object in your own defence, or the defence of your property, you can expect a heavy sentence under the, ironically named, Criminal Justice and Prevention of Crime Acts. Story in the OP is a disgusting incident, I hope those involve rot in prison. [/Lois not lost:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/10/farmer-...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/10/farmer-...
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