RE: Honda claims new Civic Type R Nurburgring record

RE: Honda claims new Civic Type R Nurburgring record

Monday 24th April 2017

Honda claims new Civic Type R Nurburgring record

It's not over yet! Honda sends 'production specification' Type R to Germany, returns with 7:43.80



If it seems that a controversial Honda Civic Type R Nurburgring lap happened not all that long ago, then you'd be right. It was in fact just over two years ago when, along with the debut of the then-new Civic Type R, Honda also published a 7:50.63 Nurburgring lap that it claimed was the fastest ever for a front-wheel drive car. Only it wasn't a production car, it was a development car. Then VW came and beat it, with a production car. And then beat it again...


Undeterred, Honda is back with the new Civic Type R and a new lap of 7:43.80. Which is quite incredible actually, though the same caveats as before sadly apply. We're told the car in the video is again a development vehicle, "technically representative of production specification". Just with a full cage in. And no rear seats. Or infotainment. Offsets the weight gain of the cage, see? Despite Honda's claims that the cage was only for safety and "did not provide any additional rigidity to the body frame", it does rather undermine the lap if that's not how the car will be sold. Many may rubbish the idea of a two-seat Golf GTI, but that means the road car was the same spec as the 'ring record car. At least, we hope it was. For what it's worth, the Civic here was said to be running "road legal track-focused tyres."

Moreover, casting aside the debate about what is and what isn't representative, seeing a front-wheel drive car do such a lap is an incredible thing to watch. Honda cites the new aero package - said to balance drag and lift better than any rival - the stiffer body and new multi-link rear suspension as the main factors for the improved time, the latter key for braking and cornering stability. Even if the driver here still looks pretty busy...


It's interesting to see the lower gear ratios in action here too, this Civic Type R able to pull fourth comfortably through the Hatzenbach section where the old car was in third. See as well where it's fourth in use at the complex before the run to Bergwerk; again that was third (and the limiter!) in the old car. While good for a lap time it should help on the road too, closely stacked intermediate gears just the thing for fun on a B-road.

Inevitably comparisons with the Golf lap will emerge, so it's worth pointing out a couple now. The Honda appears to gain its advantages on the straights, its higher speeds surely evidence of how effective the aero is. Or proof that the development car has rather more than a 10hp advantage over the Golf - depends on how cynical you are. At the Foxhole the Civic peaks at 241km/h (Golf 235km/h), on the long drag at Kesselchen it's 220km/h against 215km/h and the gap in Dottinger-Hohe peak speeds is even greater: the Civic reaches 265km/h, the Clubsport S 247km/h. Over to you for further proof of superiority, or bending the rules...

Production of the Civic Type R will begin at Swindon this summer, when first drives will commence too. Suffice it to say this soap opera will continue for a while yet!

Watch the video here.

 

Previous Civic Type R lap (7:50.63)

Golf GTI Clubsport S lap (7:47.19)

Author
Discussion

davidcharles

Original Poster:

400 posts

193 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
each to their own and all that but man, that's a bit ugly...... makes the "old" type r almost look pretty. Impressive time though.

Jonno02

2,246 posts

108 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Does anybody really care about lap times? The whole sub-8 thing with the leon cupra was so yawn.

ZX10R NIN

27,490 posts

124 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
The lap time is impressive but for most people it wouldn't be the reason to buy one as for whether it is or isn't production spec I don't think it really makes a difference all of the cars that set these time have been "optimised" I think they all now run cages etc so it's not a big deal.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Jonno02 said:
Does anybody really care about lap times? The whole sub-8 thing with the leon cupra was so yawn.
I think the idea is to get people talking about the product rather than to actually sell cars directly off the back of its track performance.

great_kahn

83 posts

85 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Going with the triple exhaust then.... laugh

Jonno02

2,246 posts

108 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
I think the idea is to get people talking about the product rather than to actually sell cars directly off the back of its track performance.
It gets very few people, aside from car journalists, talking about it. Your average joe customer that wants a top-spec sporty model of a car won't care than it drove round some tarmac ring in less than 8 minutes. They'll buy it on equipment and looks.

Animal

5,246 posts

267 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Stripped-out, caged and on track tyres? It's all a bit of a nonsense really, isn't it?

rich12

3,461 posts

153 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Is the steering wheel on properly??

TaylotS2K

1,964 posts

206 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
davidcharles said:
each to their own and all that but man, that's a bit ugly...... makes the "old" type r almost look pretty. Impressive time though.
I quite like it, in a Mad Max styling kind of way.

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I think the cage issue is a tricky one - if you are going to be lapping the 'ring at those speeds, a cage is pretty mandatory. OTOH if it is used to stiffen the chassis, it's no longer a standard car...

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
AW111 said:
I think the cage issue is a tricky one - if you are going to be lapping the 'ring at those speeds, a cage is pretty mandatory. OTOH if it is used to stiffen the chassis, it's no longer a standard car...
One could argue that if you're going to be selling a car where you believe 'ring lap times are relevant, you should probably be fitting a cage from the factory. smile

SevenR

242 posts

163 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
The lap times thing is all puffy chest stuff.
The driver is well committed, fantastic driving.
i think no matter what the lap time, it's all great news for car nuts. This is a 4 door hatchback (well, the real version will be) that we can buy. Blows my mind how fast and capable these cars are now.
I'm really liking the new CTR although I'm not totally sold on the rear, the front is really mean looking.
I fancy one of these after my Fiesta ST lease is up.



great_kahn

83 posts

85 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
rich12 said:
Is the steering wheel on properly??
Pretty sure the driver was under contract for £1 per steering input. Honda are gonna have to shift a few of these to claw back the 2 million quid they paid the driver for this lap.

RB Will

9,662 posts

239 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Cage was not structural to the car it's rubber mounted so no benefit there and the bits of interior removed were to balance out the added weight of the cage

Ashtray83

568 posts

167 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Non structural rubber mounted cage? Hahaha no nuts or bolts at all? Sky hooks....

LLCool_K

65 posts

88 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
RB Will said:
Cage was not structural to the car it's rubber mounted so no benefit there and the bits of interior removed were to balance out the added weight of the cage
I don't really think it is unreasonable to fit a roll cage to a road car, having asked a driver to dial it up to 11 and go flat out for a lap record, around the 'ring. The 'ring is hardly known for vast run off areas and kitty litter.

Hitch

6,100 posts

193 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I saw a non-R version of the new Civic on the motorway last week and it looks even worse in the flesh. Shocking thing to look at, and not in a good way!

jon-

16,496 posts

215 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Anyone know what tyres it was run on? I've not had a press release from any of the big manufacturers so maybe a Toyo or Nankang?! (total guess)

TheOversteerLever

1,340 posts

212 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Great laptime.

Someone should tell them that they're also entitled to claim the record for making the ugliest hot hatch ever! hurl

liner33

10,640 posts

201 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
SevenR said:
The lap times thing is all puffy chest stuff.
The driver is well committed, fantastic driving.
i think no matter what the lap time, it's all great news for car nuts. This is a 4 door hatchback (well, the real version will be) that we can buy. Blows my mind how fast and capable these cars are now.
I'm really liking the new CTR although I'm not totally sold on the rear, the front is really mean looking.
I fancy one of these after my Fiesta ST lease is up.
Agree 100% , the 'ring times dont matter to me but looking at how cars are developing to the point where a fwd shopping car is capable of such performance is great to see

I'm also keeping an eye on them but might also be tempted to get the outgoing model as I suspect there will be some good deals around