Advice on possible Submariner purchase
Discussion
I decided I'd buy my first proper watch last year , and have loved wearing it since. However I had a plan that this watch would be my daily wear forever as it was a gift to myself for my upcoming wedding and maybe one day it would be passed down etc.
I've owned a black bay with the new in house movement since October and think it's a great watch. However I can see me in years to come always wishing I'd gone for a non date sub. My wedding is at the end of July so I'd need to act quickly. I couldn't justify 2 watches as I'd end up not using the expensive one.
Shall I go for the sub and cherish it forever, and wear it everyday or stay with the Tudor and hope the itch goes away.
Where best to advertise a watch of this value should I want to sell? eBay with cash on collection ?
What's my chances of walking into a Rolex dealer and getting a non date sub at rrp before July?
Thanks
I've owned a black bay with the new in house movement since October and think it's a great watch. However I can see me in years to come always wishing I'd gone for a non date sub. My wedding is at the end of July so I'd need to act quickly. I couldn't justify 2 watches as I'd end up not using the expensive one.
Shall I go for the sub and cherish it forever, and wear it everyday or stay with the Tudor and hope the itch goes away.
Where best to advertise a watch of this value should I want to sell? eBay with cash on collection ?
What's my chances of walking into a Rolex dealer and getting a non date sub at rrp before July?
Thanks
In my experience, itches don't go away unless you scratch them. Watches you buy in the interim only cost you money.
If I were you, I would try Watchfinder and see what they would part ex your Tudor for against one of their Subs. Yes the Sub will be secondhand, but if you get one a year or two old, it'll be mint and a full set.
Watchfinder are expensive in my opinion, but I'm told they do great part ex deals so that may make up for this.
http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/Rolex/Submariner/1140...
If I were you, I would try Watchfinder and see what they would part ex your Tudor for against one of their Subs. Yes the Sub will be secondhand, but if you get one a year or two old, it'll be mint and a full set.
Watchfinder are expensive in my opinion, but I'm told they do great part ex deals so that may make up for this.
http://www.watchfinder.co.uk/Rolex/Submariner/1140...
d8mok said:
Shall I go for the sub and cherish it forever, and wear it everyday or stay with the Tudor and hope the itch goes away.
Get the Sub. If you've not tried one on (the later/current ceramic sub) you will feel the quality difference over the Tudor BB, especially the bracelet. I have both watches, but the Sub is favorite and most versatile, I'll never sell it. Go on, treat yourself.
d8mok said:
I have tried a friends sub on yesterday and yes it's a lovely watch.
Any thoughts about buying a sub in Spain? Travel to Madrid a fair amount as my girlfriend is spanish.
As long as its from a Authorized Dealer / Airport dealer and the price is better than the UK, I would consider it personally. All have international warranties.Any thoughts about buying a sub in Spain? Travel to Madrid a fair amount as my girlfriend is spanish.
d8mok said:
What's my chances of walking into a Rolex dealer and getting a non date sub at rrp before July?
Very little chance of actually finding one in stock, but get on a few AD waiting lists. My son got his no-date Sub within a couple of weeks of going on the waiting list at Goldsmiths in Birmingham.As for whether to scratch the itch - with a lot of help from the knowledgeable people on this forum, I bought my no-date Sub in January 2015 without spending on an intermediate watch first. Having had the Sub on my wrist every day (night and day) since the day it was delivered, I'm absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do, as I would always have been thinking "it's not a Sub" if I'd played safe and gone for a lesser watch. It was a bit of a stretch at the time, but the worry about lashing out (for me) a load of money soon dissipated and its as good as forgotten now.
I also have the smug satisfaction that I paid more than four figures less than the current RRP, so my lucky timing (Rolex price rises and the plummet of sterling against the Euro) has served me well. It pleases the inner Yorkshireman in me!
Go on - do it - you know it makes sense.....
Could I suggest you try the older versions too, if you haven't already?
Each looking at a GMT, both my son and I preferred the non-ceramic to the latest version.
Oh... and spurred on by the earlier poster, I phoned Watchfinder just now and they offered £1,200 over what I'd achieve at auction, based on what I saw Datejusts similar to mine selling for at auction yesterday.
Might be easiest all round to p/ex yours? Post-Brexit I hear that EU buyers are coming to the UK to buy now whereas pre-Brexit it was the other way around.
Each looking at a GMT, both my son and I preferred the non-ceramic to the latest version.
Oh... and spurred on by the earlier poster, I phoned Watchfinder just now and they offered £1,200 over what I'd achieve at auction, based on what I saw Datejusts similar to mine selling for at auction yesterday.
Might be easiest all round to p/ex yours? Post-Brexit I hear that EU buyers are coming to the UK to buy now whereas pre-Brexit it was the other way around.
I had the same itch (contagious little bugger!) and had a few interim, cheaper watches to try and solve (salve?) the itch. Didn't work. Still lusted after a no date Sub and when the ceramic came out, I wanted one even more. I was in Goldsmiths Torquay where I had bought a few 'good' watches and Susan (the assistant manager/sales lady) would insist on bringing out the brand new watch for me to drool over.
Well, inevitably the day came when I had some cash (not enough obviously but 0% is very accommodating ) and I bought it. Took the wind right out of her sales...not! Good sales technique there I thought.
I promised it would just be for 'Best' and not worn often.
I bought it on the 26th of October 2012 and it has not left my wrist for a moment since - sleep in it, shower in it, work on the car in it (Bloody idiot that I am) and it still looks, pretty much brand new. The high grade stainless does seem to resist scratching far better then the low grade every one else uses (with exceptions obviously) and the ceramic bezel has gained not a single mark. Time keeping has remained consistent at + 1.5 seconds per day and to say I am pleased with it, is an understatement. I love it so much, I have sold/given away a couple of other frequently worn watches (an Omega Seamaster and a Breitling Colt auto) and keep thinking about flogging the rest! Unfortunately, if I stop to think about watches for a moment or two, I still fancy a Daytona but know I would prefer the Sub as a daily so why bother?
Just do it!
Well, inevitably the day came when I had some cash (not enough obviously but 0% is very accommodating
) and I bought it. Took the wind right out of her sales...not! Good sales technique there I thought.I promised it would just be for 'Best' and not worn often.
I bought it on the 26th of October 2012 and it has not left my wrist for a moment since - sleep in it, shower in it, work on the car in it (Bloody idiot that I am) and it still looks, pretty much brand new. The high grade stainless does seem to resist scratching far better then the low grade every one else uses (with exceptions obviously) and the ceramic bezel has gained not a single mark. Time keeping has remained consistent at + 1.5 seconds per day and to say I am pleased with it, is an understatement. I love it so much, I have sold/given away a couple of other frequently worn watches (an Omega Seamaster and a Breitling Colt auto) and keep thinking about flogging the rest! Unfortunately, if I stop to think about watches for a moment or two, I still fancy a Daytona but know I would prefer the Sub as a daily so why bother?
Just do it!
The Tudor Black Bay is a really superb watch, but the Submariner is on a whole another level - a much-imitated icon worn by McQueen, Guevara, Cousteau, the Royal Navy, COMEX Dive team and pretty much everyone inbetween (and a certain 007).
Yes, it's quite common, but like a 911 Porsche or Tuxedo, these things are cliched classics for a reason - they've been around for decades & not been bettered.
Opinions vary as to whether the older or post-2012 modern ceramic versions look/wear better, but aside from the ceramic bezel, the newer version has a solid bracelet, 'glidelock' clasp, larger dial fixtures & chunkier case.
My advice is to get a post 1st July 2015 version - since then, they all came with an enhanced 5-year warranty (instead of 24 months) and a 'Superlative Chronometer' guarantee (within +/- 2 seconds rate accuracy daily).
No difference buying one from Spain - they all left the same factory in Switzerland. Just try for box & papers - will matter if you try to sell later.
However, even with the 9% November price hike in the U.K., we're still the cheapest place in the world to buy a Submariner, so Spain may not offer much in the way in savings. Even Amsterdam's Schiphol (which discounts the Tax) is similar when the post-Brexit exchange rate is accounted for.
Tourists snap up all the Subs in the UK, but with a bit of legwork & phone calls you stand a good chance of getting one prior to July - ring the regional Authorised Dealers and put your name down.
Yes, it's quite common, but like a 911 Porsche or Tuxedo, these things are cliched classics for a reason - they've been around for decades & not been bettered.
Opinions vary as to whether the older or post-2012 modern ceramic versions look/wear better, but aside from the ceramic bezel, the newer version has a solid bracelet, 'glidelock' clasp, larger dial fixtures & chunkier case.
My advice is to get a post 1st July 2015 version - since then, they all came with an enhanced 5-year warranty (instead of 24 months) and a 'Superlative Chronometer' guarantee (within +/- 2 seconds rate accuracy daily).
No difference buying one from Spain - they all left the same factory in Switzerland. Just try for box & papers - will matter if you try to sell later.
However, even with the 9% November price hike in the U.K., we're still the cheapest place in the world to buy a Submariner, so Spain may not offer much in the way in savings. Even Amsterdam's Schiphol (which discounts the Tax) is similar when the post-Brexit exchange rate is accounted for.
Tourists snap up all the Subs in the UK, but with a bit of legwork & phone calls you stand a good chance of getting one prior to July - ring the regional Authorised Dealers and put your name down.
Just buy the sub, you will always want it and the prices aren't going to go down.
As per other posts, a px deal with watchfinder is probably least hassle.
If you sell and buy on chrono 24 you might be 1k or so better off. Could use the proceeds to get a nice dress watch for the wedding...
As per other posts, a px deal with watchfinder is probably least hassle.
If you sell and buy on chrono 24 you might be 1k or so better off. Could use the proceeds to get a nice dress watch for the wedding...
As previously mentioned , try the new Ceramic Sub , then try on an earlier 14060 , 5513 , and you'll soon realise the new model feel's as though it's made from Granite.
I have the newer and older model's , love the new one , but the older one's have such a charm to them.
It's an iconic watch , do it. You'll regret not .
I have the newer and older model's , love the new one , but the older one's have such a charm to them.
It's an iconic watch , do it. You'll regret not .
Can I partially hijack this thread?
Why do Rolexes hold their value (and even appreciate) so well? They're not rare, and they're not (afaik) built in limited numbers.
Via this thread, I've seen a Sub 114060 on Watchfinders, which is less than a year old, and £500 more than list.
I'm not trying to start a fight at all. I know Rolexes retain their money, but I'm really not sure why.
Why do Rolexes hold their value (and even appreciate) so well? They're not rare, and they're not (afaik) built in limited numbers.
Via this thread, I've seen a Sub 114060 on Watchfinders, which is less than a year old, and £500 more than list.
I'm not trying to start a fight at all. I know Rolexes retain their money, but I'm really not sure why.
Why do Rolexes hold their value? Well, only certain Roli hold their value. Mainly stainless steel sports watches ,
Buy a jewel-encrusted, tiger dial, gold Daytona and you'll have lost half your money as you walk out the shop - although you won't worry about that as you are probably a Chinese industrialist, Russian arms trader, or Middle East potentate.
When it comes to the stainless steel sports watches they have heritage of sorts (Sub - James Bond, Daytona- motor racing, GMT- early days of commercial aviation, Explorer - climbing Everest, Sea Dweller - deep ocean exploration).
Rolex keeps supply and demand of these adjusted so that you are unlikely to be able to buy the SS sports model of your choice 'off the cuff' from an authorised dealer. You can get lucky in some parts of the world. But it would be luck, you would have to know what model to buy and have the financial means yo buy instantly. And of course the exchange rate may make it a poor deal
Also', Rolex raise prices by around 10 per cent every couple of years. Thus the balance of supply and demand coupled with price rises means certain watches hold/increase in value.
Some models have such long waiting lists that you'll get a huge premium instantly if you managed to get one at RRP and sell it on (e.g. ceramic bezel insert Daytona, GMT BLNR, and the latest Sea Dweller). I can tell you now that if Rolex brings out a new stainless steel GMT with a red and blue or red and black ceramic bezel insert you would make a large profit instantly if you flipped it. But getting one from a Rolex dealer within the first six months of launch would be nigh impossible for a casual buyer.
If you buy right and sell after about 10 years you will be unlucky to lose money. You can actually regard some models as having a low-interest savings account on your wrist instead of as binary digits on a bank's computer.
Buy a jewel-encrusted, tiger dial, gold Daytona and you'll have lost half your money as you walk out the shop - although you won't worry about that as you are probably a Chinese industrialist, Russian arms trader, or Middle East potentate.
When it comes to the stainless steel sports watches they have heritage of sorts (Sub - James Bond, Daytona- motor racing, GMT- early days of commercial aviation, Explorer - climbing Everest, Sea Dweller - deep ocean exploration).
Rolex keeps supply and demand of these adjusted so that you are unlikely to be able to buy the SS sports model of your choice 'off the cuff' from an authorised dealer. You can get lucky in some parts of the world. But it would be luck, you would have to know what model to buy and have the financial means yo buy instantly. And of course the exchange rate may make it a poor deal
Also', Rolex raise prices by around 10 per cent every couple of years. Thus the balance of supply and demand coupled with price rises means certain watches hold/increase in value.
Some models have such long waiting lists that you'll get a huge premium instantly if you managed to get one at RRP and sell it on (e.g. ceramic bezel insert Daytona, GMT BLNR, and the latest Sea Dweller). I can tell you now that if Rolex brings out a new stainless steel GMT with a red and blue or red and black ceramic bezel insert you would make a large profit instantly if you flipped it. But getting one from a Rolex dealer within the first six months of launch would be nigh impossible for a casual buyer.
If you buy right and sell after about 10 years you will be unlucky to lose money. You can actually regard some models as having a low-interest savings account on your wrist instead of as binary digits on a bank's computer.
Edited by audidoody on Monday 1st May 12:26
The above post by audidoody concisely explains it well, but I'd also add my thoughts as to why certain Rolex models - in this case, the Submariner - continue to remain desirable and somewhat buck the usual depreciation trend:
- A Submariner is one of THE iconic watches, and Rolex have history to burn
- A 30-yr old Sub, regularly serviced & looked after will function about 95% as well as any new Sub in term of timekeeping, and Rolex can polish watches at service time to look good as new
- Even if you buy said 30-yr old Sub, it'll probably still outlive you, if kept well, so it has long-term utility/value even then
- At a casual glance, to a non watch-geek (99% of buyers), a new Sub looks very similar to a 30-yr old Sub anyway, so may as well buy an old one and save a few quid = second hand pricing buoyancy
- Unlike Omega (for example), Rolex don't milk their successful lines, changing them every year & bringing out umpteen special editions which could leave your watch looking like yesterday's model - there's value & confidence in knowing that your purchase won't be obselete in 5 years, devalued by a continuous cavalcade of newer & noisier baubles
- If you're going to spend ridiculous money on a 'one watch' solution, a Sub makes a lot of sense - versatile & tough enough to wear from Beach to Boardroom to Nightclub
- It's expensive, but buyers can purchase with confidence they can resell themselves at little or no loss - it's a self-reinforcing phenomenon
- Pricing reviews for new Rolex that consistently massively out-strip inflation, and also 'drag up' the price of second-hand models below them
- Constant demand for even second-hand models drives the market
- Rolex work extraordinarily hard at maintaining that brand power - deliberate association with excellence, prestige, status & performance reflects & soaks in to Joe Public via careful sponsorship of the Oscars, Roger Federer, Formula One, Golf, James Cameron, James Bond etc.
- A deliberate drip-feed of models builds that scarcity & exclusivity cachet typical of many luxury goods
- That's admittedly not true for Subs worldwide, but in the Brexit afflicted UK, there is a noticeable shortage of new Subs, which is why Watchfinder can get away with ridiculous prices
- Increased demand for luxury items from China (well, until recently anyway), Brazil, Middle-East etc. is a global driver
- Ultimately, they're just good watches in their own right, built to work, last & perform their task - people like to spend on quality
So, it's a bit like being able to buy a BMW car from 1987 that looks almost the same (to the untrained eye) as the 2017 model, and has about 95% of the performance as well, but is cheaper. Given that, plus rock-solid quality & reputation, enduring popularity/status, and continued future value & longevity, it's not really any surprise that older models remain popular and hold their value.
I'm not saying it's the 'bestest watch eva', but I do find the counter-intuitive economics of it all quite fascinating, from a wider perspective.
- A Submariner is one of THE iconic watches, and Rolex have history to burn
- A 30-yr old Sub, regularly serviced & looked after will function about 95% as well as any new Sub in term of timekeeping, and Rolex can polish watches at service time to look good as new
- Even if you buy said 30-yr old Sub, it'll probably still outlive you, if kept well, so it has long-term utility/value even then
- At a casual glance, to a non watch-geek (99% of buyers), a new Sub looks very similar to a 30-yr old Sub anyway, so may as well buy an old one and save a few quid = second hand pricing buoyancy
- Unlike Omega (for example), Rolex don't milk their successful lines, changing them every year & bringing out umpteen special editions which could leave your watch looking like yesterday's model - there's value & confidence in knowing that your purchase won't be obselete in 5 years, devalued by a continuous cavalcade of newer & noisier baubles
- If you're going to spend ridiculous money on a 'one watch' solution, a Sub makes a lot of sense - versatile & tough enough to wear from Beach to Boardroom to Nightclub
- It's expensive, but buyers can purchase with confidence they can resell themselves at little or no loss - it's a self-reinforcing phenomenon
- Pricing reviews for new Rolex that consistently massively out-strip inflation, and also 'drag up' the price of second-hand models below them
- Constant demand for even second-hand models drives the market
- Rolex work extraordinarily hard at maintaining that brand power - deliberate association with excellence, prestige, status & performance reflects & soaks in to Joe Public via careful sponsorship of the Oscars, Roger Federer, Formula One, Golf, James Cameron, James Bond etc.
- A deliberate drip-feed of models builds that scarcity & exclusivity cachet typical of many luxury goods
- That's admittedly not true for Subs worldwide, but in the Brexit afflicted UK, there is a noticeable shortage of new Subs, which is why Watchfinder can get away with ridiculous prices
- Increased demand for luxury items from China (well, until recently anyway), Brazil, Middle-East etc. is a global driver
- Ultimately, they're just good watches in their own right, built to work, last & perform their task - people like to spend on quality
So, it's a bit like being able to buy a BMW car from 1987 that looks almost the same (to the untrained eye) as the 2017 model, and has about 95% of the performance as well, but is cheaper. Given that, plus rock-solid quality & reputation, enduring popularity/status, and continued future value & longevity, it's not really any surprise that older models remain popular and hold their value.
I'm not saying it's the 'bestest watch eva', but I do find the counter-intuitive economics of it all quite fascinating, from a wider perspective.
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