RE: Porsche 911 GT3 (991.2) : Review
Discussion
WCZ said:
what? that doesn't even make sense
What doesn't make sense about it? What I'm saying is they will be available to buy, but average Joe wants to pay list price for one. You won't get one for list price unless you're chosen by Porsche. So you have the chance to buy one, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Simple.
Helicopter123 said:
I have no issue with Porsche releasing investment assets onto the market on an annual basis.
Lots of companies do it.
Cannot understand though why they don't set the initial price 'at market' though?
I don't think they do. They're making more of them then the previous generations. The original 996GT3 was not an investment asset when launched e.g. anyone could order a new 996RS because there was so little interest in them. It's the people/market that have turned the Porsche GT cars into investment assets rather than Porsche themselves. Especially in the UK (it's no where near as bad in mainland Europe I believe). The situation got worse over here with the arrival of the GT4 because it was a 'cheap' GT car that attracted another level of speculator. The GT4 investment experiment went so well (for those that got one) that they alone have doubled the interest in the latest GT3. Demand is now so out of control that Porsche don't have a hope in satisfying the majority that are interested in buying one.Lots of companies do it.
Cannot understand though why they don't set the initial price 'at market' though?
p.s. Really enjoyed the review regardless of me not being in the running for one, ever!
The single best introduction to a car article I have ever read. My thoughts exactly. "I want I want" doesn't get you anywhere. Time to accept you either arent rich enough or important enough - suck it up and stop crying.
Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the f
k up.
Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the f
k up. Auson said:
Is it just me whos a bit shocked by 1.5 tons ?
Glad you noticed, pleased that PH finally takes care to specify how the weight is defined. In this case fuelled and with a driver, so not too bad. But not so favourable as the supercar manufacturers utterly pointless dry weights will have led you to believe. Like the autocar rivals for this one, the 675LT and the 488. How much are these on the road with a driver? 1300kg you said? It's 1475kg and 1625kg respectively. Weighed by Sport Auto with pricy extra carbon bits. If it is any consolation, the F40, alledgedly very lightweight, puts more than 1400kg on the scales by the same standards, so actually it isn't that bad after all. Onehp said:
Auson said:
Is it just me whos a bit shocked by 1.5 tons ?
Glad you noticed, pleased that PH finally takes care to specify how the weight is defined. In this case fuelled and with a driver, so not too bad. But not so favourable as the supercar manufacturers utterly pointless dry weights will have led you to believe. Like the autocar rivals for this one, the 675LT and the 488. How much are these on the road with a driver? 1300kg you said? It's 1475kg and 1625kg respectively. Weighed by Sport Auto with pricy extra carbon bits. If it is any consolation, the F40, alledgedly very lightweight, puts more than 1400kg on the scales by the same standards, so actually it isn't that bad after all. Dave Hedgehog said:
why
porsche have engineered them into a commodities market for dealers and flippers to make huge profits on
normal buyers have sod all chance of getting one
utterly pointless
You see this is just myopic. We are a small RHD island and availability is different on the continent. I read a post a day or two ago about somebody going into their local European dealer and ordering one. You can't extrapolate just because we are relatively less able to get the cars because we compete with other affluent RHD markets for the smaller RHD production.porsche have engineered them into a commodities market for dealers and flippers to make huge profits on
normal buyers have sod all chance of getting one
utterly pointless
Of course, they won't make unlimited quantities as this is a 2-seat relatively impractical halo model and their capacity goes towards the more mainstream stuff. Would you run your business any differently?
It is great they make such a range of cars and this car in particular, along with RS, R, GT2RS etc. It must be a thankless task trying to work out who gets one but at the end of the day this is no different to what has been going on with Ferrari etc for years. My experience of Porsche is they are less up themselves by a huge margin than Ferrari when it comes to allocation.
I get what Dan is saying. I want my cars to drive and enjoy them, not flip them. Last year I was fortunate enough to buy new a 991RS, GT4 and Boxster Spyder. All driven when I get a chance and none flipped. It pisses me off when you read uninformed internet debate calling these cars investment vehicles. There always has been flipping, Porsche didn't invent it. There always will be.
Now, can we get back to the car.
Dan, I would love to read a review of the manual - particularly as it has a mechanical diff and I understand the RWS is recalibrated vs PDK.
Edited by AndrewD on Thursday 27th April 13:52
mechagran said:
The single best introduction to a car article I have ever read. My thoughts exactly. "I want I want" doesn't get you anywhere. Time to accept you either arent rich enough or important enough - suck it up and stop crying.
Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the fk up.
Well said, Sir!Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the f
k up. BTW, just love the car.....
epom said:
It'll never sell, a normally aspirated engine revving to 9000 rpm think of the CO2 ? Everyone knows turbo charging is where it's at. So surprised with Porsche of all people dropping the ball so badly on this one.
Don't worry, they're bringing out a GT2 soon for the 'non-purists' ( as someone on another thread put it )AndrewD said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
why
porsche have engineered them into a commodities market for dealers and flippers to make huge profits on
normal buyers have sod all chance of getting one
utterly pointless
You see this is just myopic. We are a small RHD island and availability is different on the continent. I read a post a day or two ago about somebody going into their local European dealer and ordering one. You can't extrapolate just because we are relatively less able to get the cars because we compete with other affluent RHD markets for the smaller RHD production.porsche have engineered them into a commodities market for dealers and flippers to make huge profits on
normal buyers have sod all chance of getting one
utterly pointless
Of course, they won't make unlimited quantities as this is a 2-seat relatively impractical halo model and their capacity goes towards the more mainstream stuff. Would you run your business any differently?
It is great they make such a range of cars and this car in particular, along with RS, R, GT2RS etc. It must be a thankless task trying to work out who gets one but at the end of the day this is no different to what has been going on with Ferrari etc for years. My experience of Porsche is they are less up themselves by a huge margin than Ferrari when it comes to allocation.
I get what Dan is saying. I want my cars to drive and enjoy them, not flip them. Last year I was fortunate enough to buy new a 991RS, GT4 and Boxster Spyder. All driven when I get a chance and none flipped. It pisses me off when you read uninformed internet debate calling these cars investment vehicles. There always has been flipping, Porsche didn't invent it. There always will be.
Now, can we get back to the car.
Dan, I would love to read a review of the manual - particularly as it has a mechanical diff and I understand the RWS is recalibrated vs PDK.
Edited by AndrewD on Thursday 27th April 13:52
Helicopter123 said:
I have no issue with Porsche releasing investment assets onto the market on an annual basis.
Lots of companies do it.
Cannot understand though why they don't set the initial price 'at market' though?
I was thinking the same about the price set at the market, instead of a list price which had everyone fight over 'em - How about sealed bids (fully binding) & say if Porsche make 1500 the highest 1500 bids get the car. Drive out the speculators, flippers etc but it would put them out of even the richest of normal people.Lots of companies do it.
Cannot understand though why they don't set the initial price 'at market' though?
I guess for me its pretty simple. What would the dialogue be like if Porsche made several thousand extra cars? This entire discussion about availability would be pretty much gone.
I dont think you can objectively sit back and separate what Porsche are doing. Supply and demand are equal parts of a market. They do the supply, and customers provide the demand.
As long as Porsche are intent on maximising profitability, is it any wonder we get the results we do?
I'm sure its a good car (I wont go so far as to say great, because the pendulum effect will catch people out, given that not everyone is a driving god - PH readership excluded of course *cough, cough*), and who doesnt like the idea of having a toy like this, whether in reality or in their dreams?
But in reality though, to stick your head in the sand over the OPC behaviour is refusing to accept that a good many people who DO genuinely want one and can afford them through outright funds or finance, just will be excluded from the opportunity.
I fear that will breed ill will.
I dont think you can objectively sit back and separate what Porsche are doing. Supply and demand are equal parts of a market. They do the supply, and customers provide the demand.
As long as Porsche are intent on maximising profitability, is it any wonder we get the results we do?
I'm sure its a good car (I wont go so far as to say great, because the pendulum effect will catch people out, given that not everyone is a driving god - PH readership excluded of course *cough, cough*), and who doesnt like the idea of having a toy like this, whether in reality or in their dreams?
But in reality though, to stick your head in the sand over the OPC behaviour is refusing to accept that a good many people who DO genuinely want one and can afford them through outright funds or finance, just will be excluded from the opportunity.
I fear that will breed ill will.
alexrogers92 said:
WCZ said:
what? that doesn't even make sense
What doesn't make sense about it? What I'm saying is they will be available to buy, but average Joe wants to pay list price for one. You won't get one for list price unless you're chosen by Porsche. So you have the chance to buy one, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Simple.
People would prefer to buy a new car to their spec. at the list price. They don't want to buy a second hand car not to their spec. for 50% more than what the car cost originally.
mechagran said:
The single best introduction to a car article I have ever read. My thoughts exactly. "I want I want" doesn't get you anywhere. Time to accept you either arent rich enough or important enough - suck it up and stop crying.
Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the fk up.
You sound like a charming person. No doubt it has got you far in life though.Oh and, guess what you have the internet, food and central heating. These are not real problems so grow the f
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