RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW

RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW

Tuesday 16th May 2017

The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW

Stop moaning and just go and buy a GT86, says PH's in-house curmudgeon



Funny, isn't it? There has been a lot of rage directed at Porsche for the 718 Boxster and Cayman, mainly from those who haven't actually driven them. Perception matters though and to many the 718s represent all that is wrong with modern sports cars, which is to say turbocharging, an excess of weight, over complexity of driving modes, overgearing, too much rubber on the road and a general sense of isolation from the joy of driving.

Small, simple, and superb fun - come on!
Small, simple, and superb fun - come on!
Yet all this time there's been a car on sale - two, if you count its identical in all but badge sibling - delivering on exactly the attributes these self-affirmed purists say are being eradicated from the motoring landscape. Namely, affordability; rear-wheel drive through a proper limited-slip diff; a lovely manual gearbox; a naturally-aspirated motor that thrives on revs and size and visibility that you can exploit on a British B-road. These plus skinny tyres that let you play with its cornering attitude on the throttle at speeds that won't get you into trouble.

This car is the answer to pretty much all the complaints we throw at modern performance machinery, from hot hatches to supercars. And yet is written out of the argument by virtue of 'not having enough power', and costing a bit more than turbocharged hatchbacks with more impressive 0-62 times. Mainly from those who haven't driven it. Spotting a pattern here?

(Less) power to the people
You'll have guessed from this I'm something of a GT86 advocate, the more so having driven the facelifted 2017 version you see here.

Indeed, my heart lifts on the (disappointingly rare) occasions that I see an '86 or Subaru BRZ on the road. Choosing one of these cars is a deliberate statement, one that proves the owner gets it. It also means another in the stock of used examples from which I will one day buy one. This brings me cheer.

Accessible fun at roads speeds? Yes please!
Accessible fun at roads speeds? Yes please!
So what has Toyota done to this new GT86? Well it's not added a turbo or anything like that for starters. Nope. Engine, transmission and performance stats are all exactly the same as before. Some will see this as a crushing missed opportunity. I happen to view it as a rather amusing up yours to those who the project boss told me "don't get it".

Because to my mind the GT86 strips away the crap from modern cars and focuses on the important stuff. So it doesn't have a bunch of driver modes, damper settings or other distractions. What you get out of the car is merely as good as what you put in. So if you can't rev-match you'll get jerky gearshifts and rear-wheel lock-ups. If you're afraid of revs you'll miss out on the engine's real sweet spot. If you can't steer smoothly it'll feel over-sensitive and twitchy. If you secretly get scared carrying speed round corners and prefer a point and squirt driving style to demonstrate your masculinity it WILL feel slow. And if 200hp isn't enough to overtake slower traffic you're simply not reading the road or planning ahead.

In the zone
Thankfully everything about the GT86 is geared towards you doing all of the above properly. It's in the detail too. The boxer engine means a low centre of gravity and a low dash for great visibility. The pillars are thin and your ability to place the car accurately helped by the shape of the front wings. The driving position is spot-on, your legs stretched out, the wheel to your chest, the gearstick's relation to it perfectly judged and the pedals positioned and weighted for easy footwork.

Low seat, central tacho, round wheel - all here!
Low seat, central tacho, round wheel - all here!
In that wonderfully Japanese way Toyota proudly boasts of a steering wheel that's 3mm narrower in diameter and shaped to turn your arms inward for what it claims is a "sportier feel". Me neither but I like the fact it's small, round and the response to it is sharp, precise and uncorrupted by nose-heavy dynamics, driveshafts or anything else. OK, it's electrically assisted but the weight is well-judged to that of the car and tweaked suspension settings emphasise the enthusiasm to dive for the apex.

Details are frustratingly sparse but the gist would seem to be slightly softer damping, less friction in the struts, a slightly stiffer rear anti-roll bar and some additional body stiffening around the suspension mounting points, rear arches, body and transmission tunnel.

Which would tally with how enthusiastically it turns it. Even just rolling it into the turn with your wrists has it changing direction in an instant. Lift or trail the brakes a tad and it's already starting a subtle rotation which you can then hold in a lovely neutral balance or play with on the throttle, the instant and uncorrupted naturally-aspirated response from the throttle pedal such a breath of fresh air in this turbocharged age.

Point and shoot
Driven at pace on dry tarmac you can provoke enough oversteer with the weight transfer to then maintain the slide on the throttle if you wish, though such antics are probably best kept for the track. Indeed, the transition from neutrality to oversteer is so clearly communicated it makes everything else feel inert and desensitised. On the road you can just enjoy the same sensation with barely visible corrections, so clean is the feedback.

MY17 tweaks have made it better too
MY17 tweaks have made it better too
Toyota says the biggest change it's made to the car is in the electronics, specifically the ABS, traction and stability control based on what it's learned in its various GT86 motorsport programmes. You can progress through TC off to TC and VSC off (Toyota's branded stability control) via one button or choose the new Track mode, which puts both to a new 'minimised' background setting. All very nice, but the smoother intervention with everything in place on that wet roundabout on the way to work is more impressive. Because even motoring journalistss don't spend every journey on the lock-stops. The fact this is a 'soft limiter' rather than the rug-from-under-your-feet of before lets those new to rear-wheel drive enjoy the sensations without feeling they've had a ticking off by the black boxes.

For this and so many other reasons I think the GT86 - and similarly tweaked BRZ - are more important than ever. If you're fixated with mid-range torque, interior plastic squishiness and what the neighbours think, by all means stretch that bit further to get on the first rung of the front-wheel drive, turbocharged Audi TT ladder. Those who get it can - and should - enjoy a GT86 for all that it says about your priorities in life.


TOYOTA GT86 (MY17)
Engine:
Exactly the same as before
Transmission: See above
Power (hp): And again
Torque (lb ft): Guess what...
0-62mph: Slower than a Fiesta ST
Top speed: Fast enough to get you banned
Weight: Still a bit disappointing, truth be told
MPG: Nothing to get excited about
CO2: Worse than a Prius
Price: A bit too much, if you believe what you read

Author
Discussion

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

137 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Why not buy an old car you like rather than a new one you don't.

We have a MK3 MR2, quicker to 60 than the GT but I would never describe it as quick, and the engine is the worst part of the whole car.

V8 FOU

2,971 posts

147 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
I always wince at the criticisms of the GT86.
A BMW M3 E30 has roughly the same power and weight and everyone gets very moist about it.
GT86? Not enough power/too heavy etc.

I will admit to not having driven one, but I "get it" 100%. Makes so much sense - but when did sense matter on PH?

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

137 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
The M3 is a thirty year old car. Things have moved on, the GT hasn't.

HTH.

CABC

5,568 posts

101 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
a considered article that makes a good case.

The engine has its flaws, but everything else is a positive. A lot more flaws in many other ph darlings that are ignored because of badge or bhp stats.

MarshPhantom

9,658 posts

137 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
I own an MR2 so you can hardly call me a badge snob or worried about stats. The GT all just seems a bit pointless.

DPSFleet

192 posts

161 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
I've not driven one but I think:

a. It looks good
b: looks practical and usable daily
c. good value
d. a bit different.
e. power is not everything, I get more fun driving an Abarth 595 than I do an F type Jag..

In summary it's on my list to buy although I shall go secondhand and see what bargains are out there.


untakenname

4,965 posts

192 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
I think you would see more of these on the roads if it came out in a different era, before everyone got stuff on tick (PCP) as the mod scene simply isn't there which is a shame as a different manifold and remap is meant to give it a lot more midrange clout and a nice boxer rumble.

The lease deals are rubbish as well, for £380 per month you can get a lot more for your money from different manufacturers.

I don't get why people rave about how it's good on crap tyres, it's not really a selling point imo.

s m

23,219 posts

203 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
This must be the most repeated thread topic on here in the last couple of years?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

54 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
The problem is, that in the real world, the GT86 simply doesn't work.


You can't hoon around corners, even if you aren't 'scared' (what ever that means..) especially when you drive on our crowded southern roads during rush hour, which, lets face it, is what most people have to do, and so you end up following someone dawdling along, and then you think "i'll just overtake them on the next straight" and blammo, their bl**dy TDi just scampers off into the distance whilst you wait for your asthmatic (and dull sounding) 4 pot N/A to wind itself up, meaning you can't actually easily overtake them.

This why they have only sold about 7 cars..............


(BTW, the boxer ENGINE may have a low CofG when referenced to its crankshaft centreline, but the CAR it ends up in does not, because that crank CL has to be much higher to get the necessary clearance for the exhaust system underneath! And the boxer layout is also why the engine is so lame (both in terms of BMEP and sounds) because it's not possible to leverage exhaust tuning from 4 cyls (because the heads are about 3 foot apart!))

CABC

5,568 posts

101 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
MarshPhantom said:
I own an MR2 so you can hardly call me a badge snob or worried about stats. The GT all just seems a bit pointless.
i love the mr2 and also have an elise and mx5. the 86 is in that vein but has way more practicality as low mileage, fun daily. But a GT mile-muncher it certainly isn't. a limited market, i agree, but not pointless. I enjoy the kind of driving in the article, pressing on, using all of the car and being rewarded for smooth inputs.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

143 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Article said:
Price: A bit too much, if you believe what you read
Im not in the UK, so things might be different, but over here the thing costs over €53K, enough to buy four small hatchbacks for fks sake.

I do like the GT86, and i wouldnt mind having one in the future, but the amount of (pretty capable) metal you can buy for the price...

Olivera

7,122 posts

239 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Stuff
Max_Torque, I love reading your technical posts, but you always seem thoroughly disillusioned with the enjoyment of driving. Perhaps a secession of diesel and ev vehicles is responsible along with your Ibiza never having turned a wheel in years? Cheer up man!

irish boy

3,533 posts

236 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Had a text drive last week. Enjoyed it. Lovely steering and you could feel the car working around you.

The engine felt slightly lacking in puff climbing the long 3rd gear hill outside the dealership, but I reckon I could live with one ok.

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

168 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
(BTW, the boxer ENGINE may have a low CofG when referenced to its crankshaft centreline, but the CAR it ends up in does not, because that crank CL has to be much higher to get the necessary clearance for the exhaust system underneath! And the boxer layout is also why the engine is so lame (both in terms of BMEP and sounds) because it's not possible to leverage exhaust tuning from 4 cyls (because the heads are about 3 foot apart!))
Damn you for your well-reasoned and informed logic. Mutter, grumble, etc...

Still does good skids though.

Dan



spreadsheet monkey

4,545 posts

227 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
I'd rather have a new MX-5 (I had a Mk2 MX-5 many years ago and it was great).

Same low powered RWD goodness, cheaper to buy, and the roof comes off.

Not fussed about back seats or torsional rigidity.

SturdyHSV

10,094 posts

167 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Since finding youtube videos of people fitting unequal length headers to these and regaining most of that classic Impreza sound, the want has somewhat skyrocketed.

Venturist

3,472 posts

195 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
The problem is, that in the real world, the GT86 simply doesn't work.


You can't hoon around corners, even if you aren't 'scared' (what ever that means..) especially when you drive on our crowded southern roads during rush hour, which, lets face it, is what most people have to do, and so you end up following someone dawdling along, and then you think "i'll just overtake them on the next straight" and blammo, their bl**dy TDi just scampers off into the distance whilst you wait for your asthmatic (and dull sounding) 4 pot N/A to wind itself up, meaning you can't actually easily overtake them.

This why they have only sold about 7 cars..............


(BTW, the boxer ENGINE may have a low CofG when referenced to its crankshaft centreline, but the CAR it ends up in does not, because that crank CL has to be much higher to get the necessary clearance for the exhaust system underneath! And the boxer layout is also why the engine is so lame (both in terms of BMEP and sounds) because it's not possible to leverage exhaust tuning from 4 cyls (because the heads are about 3 foot apart!))
Nailed it. I lusted for one since the first concepts, I test drove one when they came out and knew it was the car for me, finally got one and... I just never gelled with it at all. Never really enjoyed it. Got rid after a few months at great expense.
That "playful back end" the reviews love, in real life to me it just felt skittish. Back end steps out under power over a crest, or an off-camber corner, or accidentally when exiting a roundabout, or even when pulling away from a junction a little too urgently. So you end up being delicate with it around corners because you don't want to be attacking a bend only to have a little dip in the tarmac send the back end out towards Mrs Lewis who's coming the other way in her Zafira. And yes, the alignment was correct and I tried the factory tyres AND some wider stickier ones.
You also can't overtake without a huge long straight, so you rarely get any clear road to enjoy, and when you do wind it out it feels wheezy and sounds crap.
I also hated the gearshift and clutch feel despite having everything checked and adjusted to suit.

Swing and a miss. Sold it at a loss and haven't looked back.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

54 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Olivera said:
Max_Torque said:
Stuff
Max_Torque, I love reading your technical posts, but you always seem thoroughly disillusioned with the enjoyment of driving. Perhaps a secession of diesel and ev vehicles is responsible along with your Ibiza never having turned a wheel in years? Cheer up man!
Call me a 'Practicalist' (i've been called worse...... lol)

I live in the south, i drive mostly during rush hour. I commute 16 miles a day (each way) on B roads. Back in 2001 that trip took 16min, with just one 30mph limit through a small village. In 2017, that same commute now takes 45min, and has huge swathes of 30 and 40 mph limits, double white lines to prevent overtaking and hordes of dawdlers, paying no attention what-so-ever to their driving, doing 40 as a maximum.

If lived in Scotland, or Wales then yes, perhaps i'd enjoy driving a bit more, but today, where i live, driving is a chore.....

(which is why i have an EV and a pokey diesel........ ;-)

Tuvra

7,921 posts

225 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
What I don't get is why they didn't make a "proper" TRD version? If you want the basic one, fine, buy it.

Why not open up the appeal by adding some fat tyres and a Turbo/SC? 300bhp and some sticky tyres and this would be a totally different proposition. No different to say other manufacturers offering a 2.3/V8 Mustang, 4cyl/V8 F-type, Focus ST/RS, Audi TTS/TTRS etc?

I had one for 6 weeks or so and would never buy one, if there was a factory standard car offering 300bhp for £30-32k or so, I'd certainly be willing to consider one though, especially if it was a bit more "lairy":-

smile

Grantstown

967 posts

87 months

Tuesday 16th May 2017
quotequote all
Having previously had an S2000 with 240hp from a 2 litre NA engine, it just seems a little disappointing that this level of performance can't be replicated in these cars, because the concept otherwise seems great.