RE: The Toyota GT86 is more relevant than ever: TMIW

[braddo]

daemon said:

I dont have a particularly massive beef about the performance, its the performance relative to the price (and the deals offered on the car) that i have the issue with.

You just sound like a cheapskate who thinks something is too expensive because you don't value ( or understand) what is is being offered by the seller. And then you go on ad infinitum about it.
Sorry but you sound like a classic case of a car 'enthusiast' who can't see beyond 0-60 and how much a car costs. To use a PH phrase there's a metric fktonne of other stuff which other car enthusiasts enjoy than those two things (and which the GT86 offers some of).

Have you watched the Chris Harris video with the GT86, 370 and Cayman? Just to get an idea of what i and others are talking about?

[daemon]

braddo said:

You just sound like a cheapskate who thinks something is too expensive because you don't value ( or understand) what is is being offered by the seller.

Name calling? Really?

I'm certainly not a cheapskate when it comes to cars. I've spent an awful lot more on cars, and an awful lot less on cars than would buy a new or used GT86.

I - like many people - think the GT86 is underpowered relative to its price. And it doesnt offer enough of what i value in other areas to offset that.

Thats my perspective on the car. I am also not alone in thinking that. That doesnt make my view the only correct one, however it is a valid view.

There is no right or wrong answer on this - its down to each individuals perspective. Over the last 10 years we've owned RWD low slung coupes for over 5 of those years. Firstly with a BMW Z4 3.0Si Coupe, and then with a 370Z GT. Both from my perspective, suited what i wanted from a car better, at the time. Both were respectively more expensive too than the GT86 so its not about being a "cheapskate"

Other peoples perspective is that they are happy with that amount of performance for that price. That is their perspective. It doesnt make them right and me wrong, nor vice versa.

braddo said:

Sorry but you sound like a classic case of a car 'enthusiast' who can't see beyond 0-60 and how much a car costs. To use a PH phrase there's a metric fktonne of other stuff which other car enthusiasts enjoy than those two things (and which the GT86 offers some of).

Well then you'd be wrong about me. Firstly, some of the best cars i've owned have been relatively slow - I'm thinking back to the 1989 Mazda MX5 1.6 i had for example. Some of the best overall cars i've owned have not been about performance either, but have shone in other areas. In the last year for example i've had a track prepared Clio 172, a Clio 197 and a Porsche Boxster 2.7. The next purchase on my radar is a late model 2012 Clio RS200 Cup which i'm planning for later in the year.

I also find it a bit sad BTW when people have to go down the route of personal insults to reconcile why someone else may be "wrong" on the internet, rather than simply they a different - and quite valid - perspective.

braddo said:

Have you watched the Chris Harris video with the GT86, 370 and Cayman? Just to get an idea of what i and others are talking about?

Yes, i have. And yes, i have "an idea of what you're talking about" - i've owned many very capable cars, that havent necessarily been the fastest in their field.

I'd love to love the GT86 / Subaru BRZ. As i've said before, we've form for something like them - we've recent history with low slung coupes, and we've a history also of buying new Subarus (prodrive modded Impreza) and sports Toyotas (MR2 & Celica both bought new at the time).

I just find the GT86 in principal leaves me cold. However, as i've said earlier in the thread if you bothered to read it before jumping on your high horse, i'm going to organise to get a demo car for a few days when we are due to change our main car to see if the other elements that the GT86 brings to the table outweigh its shortcomings in other areas for our needs and from our perspective

Edited by daemon on Wednesday 31st May 13:08

Edited by daemon on Wednesday 31st May 17:30

[jamoor]

daemon said:

Yes, i have. And yes, i have "an idea of what you're talking about" - i've owned many very capable cars, that havent necessarily been the fastest in their field.

I'd love to love the GT86 / Subaru BRZ. As i've said before, we've form for something like them - we've recent history with low slung coupes, and we've a history also of buying new Subarus (prodrive modded Impreza) and sports Toyotas (MR2 & Celica both bought new at the time).

I just find the GT86 leaves me cold. However, as i've said earlier in the thread if you bothered to read it, i'm going to organise to get a demo car for a few days when we are due to change our main car to see if the other elements that the GT86 brings to the table from our perspective outweigh its shortcomings in other areas.

I think the thing we are all missing is that it's intended to be a base for people to go ahead and modify as they see fit.

[daemon]

jamoor said:

daemon said:

Yes, i have. And yes, i have "an idea of what you're talking about" - i've owned many very capable cars, that havent necessarily been the fastest in their field.

I'd love to love the GT86 / Subaru BRZ. As i've said before, we've form for something like them - we've recent history with low slung coupes, and we've a history also of buying new Subarus (prodrive modded Impreza) and sports Toyotas (MR2 & Celica both bought new at the time).

I just find the GT86 leaves me cold. However, as i've said earlier in the thread if you bothered to read it, i'm going to organise to get a demo car for a few days when we are due to change our main car to see if the other elements that the GT86 brings to the table from our perspective outweigh its shortcomings in other areas.

I think the thing we are all missing is that it's intended to be a base for people to go ahead and modify as they see fit.

Yes, agreed. And in markets where thats supported more readily by insurance companies (and warranty claims) and theres a cheaper base car in the first place, that works.

Also, we're in a market whereby the first ownership tier are most likely going to be via PCH / PCP / HP finance, none of which take kindly to modding.

The issue for me is the relatively high asking price in the first place, on top of which you need to do X, Y, Z and at a cost of £,£££ to get it to where it should have been in the first place.

More recent better discounts available via brokers i guess helps offset that.

Edited by daemon on Wednesday 31st May 13:15

[otolith]

daemon said:

otolith said:

So you engineer a two litre coupe based on a vision of something that's all about the handling, moderate running costs and the option to modify, then you get the styling pics from the design team and go "Oh fk, they've made it look too good, either we will have to throw the concept out of the window and redesign the running gear for a different market, or we'll have to send it back and get them to hit it with the ugly stick"?

Bizarre.

Unlikely thats how it happened, but the reality is, its a low slung coupe with "look at me" styling and then when you do look, well its not really very quick is it?

What says that it has to be? It has a perfectly legitimate function mechanically. You're basically saying that if you want to build a modestly powered, great handling little coupe, you have to frump it up a bit or other people will think it needs to be faster?

daemon said:

otolith said:

And anyway, the UK loves fast looking slow cars, look at all the S-line, M-technic and AMG bodykitted soot chuckers.

And ironically, a lot of them can keep up with the GT86...

Yes, yes they can. And they have tarted up styling to make them look sportier. So remind me why it's a problem for the Toyota and not the BMW, Mercedes, Audi?

[CABC]

just





a




small





contribution




en route





to





40 pages.

hadn't followed this since page 25. nothing new.

[donny1]

Well my opinion for what little its worth after just buying one.

Was looking to replace a civic type R ep3 id had for 8 years

Was looking for the same sort of running costs, usability etc. (a few track days etc)

Ended up buying one for £14k, I see what people are saying about the new price it doesn't seem great value, if i was going to spend new money i doubt id have bought one.

Although the civic is down on power these days i never thought it was too slow and the same goes for the gt86. On the road if you cant overtake you probably shouldn't be doing it anyway.

That being said i do agree the engine inst great. Nice initial noise, big flat spot in the middle and have to rev it but doesn't sound like it enjoys being revved.

Like a previous poster mentioned i think an s2000 motor would make it perfect. (in what it is supposed to be)


Yes a 300bhp forced induction, sticky tyred one would also be good but then its a totally different car.

thanks

[daemon]

otolith said:

What says that it has to be? It has a perfectly legitimate function mechanically. You're basically saying that if you want to build a modestly powered, great handling little coupe, you have to frump it up a bit or other people will think it needs to be faster?

No. I said that the car looks faster than it actually is. Thats very different from "make it look slower"

otolith said:

Yes, yes they can. And they have tarted up styling to make them look sportier. So remind me why it's a problem for the Toyota and not the BMW, Mercedes, Audi?

Ummm... because theres no particular expectation for a 2.0TD rep mobile to be fast so if it looks fast but isnt particularly, then no issues. Building a fast looking coupe though that isnt fast is a different issue.

All IMHO of course.

I'd like it to be quicker. Shame on me, eh!

[daemon]

donny1 said:

Ended up buying one for £14k, I see what people are saying about the new price it doesn't seem great value, if i was going to spend new money i doubt id have bought one.

I think they start to make more sense used and down the money a bit. Ironically because they sell so few new, that keeps the used prices up...

donny1 said:

That being said i do agree the engine inst great. Nice initial noise, big flat spot in the middle and have to rev it but doesn't sound like it enjoys being revved.

Saying its too expensive when new AND the engine isnt great? You're going to get thrown out of the GT86 owners club for those sorts of blasphemies!

donny1 said:

Yes a 300bhp forced induction, sticky tyred one would also be good but then its a totally different car.

I think a supercharged one around 250BHP would be the sweet spot.

[Gary C]

donny1 said:

doesn't sound like it enjoys being revved.

Genuine question, what does that sound like ?

Do you mean it sounds coarse and vibrates ?

[jamoor]

donny1 said:

Well my opinion for what little its worth after just buying one.

Was looking to replace a civic type R ep3 id had for 8 years

Was looking for the same sort of running costs, usability etc. (a few track days etc)

Ended up buying one for £14k, I see what people are saying about the new price it doesn't seem great value, if i was going to spend new money i doubt id have bought one.

Although the civic is down on power these days i never thought it was too slow and the same goes for the gt86. On the road if you cant overtake you probably shouldn't be doing it anyway.

That being said i do agree the engine inst great. Nice initial noise, big flat spot in the middle and have to rev it but doesn't sound like it enjoys being revved.

Like a previous poster mentioned i think an s2000 motor would make it perfect. (in what it is supposed to be)


Yes a 300bhp forced induction, sticky tyred one would also be good but then its a totally different car.

thanks

I think the s2k engine doesn't conform to the design spec which is, boxer engine to reduce COG. Otherwise Toyota wouldn't have collaborated with Subaru.

[otolith]

daemon said:

Ummm... because theres no particular expectation for a 2.0TD rep mobile to be fast so if it looks fast but isnt particularly, then no issues. Building a fast looking coupe though that isnt fast is a different issue.

All IMHO of course.

I'd like it to be quicker. Shame on me, eh!

It's not quick enough for you - that's fine, it's probably not quite quick enough for me either. I just don't see how what it looks like has anything to do with that, or given that it is what it is, how it would be improved by making it look slower.

[Blayney]

https://twitter.com/subaru_usa/status/869619237517...

"Stay tuned 6/8/17... #STI"

[Tickle]

Topgear website has a bit on the BRZ STI , not much info but the source is from Subaru.

[daemon]

otolith said:

daemon said:

Ummm... because theres no particular expectation for a 2.0TD rep mobile to be fast so if it looks fast but isnt particularly, then no issues. Building a fast looking coupe though that isnt fast is a different issue.

All IMHO of course.

I'd like it to be quicker. Shame on me, eh!

It's not quick enough for you - that's fine, it's probably not quite quick enough for me either. I just don't see how what it looks like has anything to do with that, or given that it is what it is, how it would be improved by making it look slower.

I dont think i made reference to "making it look slower".

Actually just having checked there - you're the one who brought up making it look slower. No one else mentioned it.

otolith said:

Fire99 said:

I can only speak for me but visually it's a nice looking car but the looks suggest performance that the car doesn't deliver.

A few people have said this.

What would you do to it in order to make it look slower, and how many more sales would you anticipate that would create?

Theres a big difference between saying it looks quicker than it is and make it look slower.

[Glasgowrob]

Despite the negativity towards them the used values are really holding up

Would love to have one and drop a set of ITBs and some cams on it and build a high revving 250bhp screamer

[daemon]

Just did some checking...

Entry level Ford Fiesta ST here - £18,935
Entry level Mazda MX5 here - £18,795
Entry level Toyota GT86 here - £26,855

In Australia (Melbourne Prices)

Entry level Ford Fiesta ST here - $31,301 (£18,056)
Entry level Mazda MX5 there - $37,496 (£21,630)
Entry level Toyota GT86 there - $35,067 (£20,229)

If Toyota UK had opted to follow the Toyota AUS pricing, we'd be paying approx £20,995 for the entry level GT86.

[anonymous-user]

dash86 vs MX-5 RF:

2017 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF vs. 2017 Toyota 86 - Head 2 Head Ep. 89


Spoiler, the dash86's extra 40 horses completely fail to make an appearance...........

[jamoor]

Max_Torque said:

dash86 vs MX-5 RF:

2017 Mazda MX-5 Miata RF vs. 2017 Toyota 86 - Head 2 Head Ep. 89


Spoiler, the dash86's extra 40 horses completely fail to make an appearance...........

Gotta mention


2:48 in the video - some dude in japan loved drifting the AE86.

I can't tell if he's serious or not.

[braddo]

daemon said:

Just did some checking...

Entry level Ford Fiesta ST here - £18,935
Entry level Mazda MX5 here - £18,795
Entry level Toyota GT86 here - £26,855

In Australia (Melbourne Prices)

Entry level Ford Fiesta ST here - $31,301 (£18,056)
Entry level Mazda MX5 there - $37,496 (£21,630)
Entry level Toyota GT86 there - $35,067 (£20,229)

If Toyota UK had opted to follow the Toyota AUS pricing, we'd be paying approx £20,995 for the entry level GT86.

Like I said, you're being a cheapskate by focusing on price all the time!!!!!!
You are judging the car repeatedly on its Uk price and 0-60. All those other cars you owned and you don't seem to see the performance benefits the car offers beyond simple 0-60 stats.

And would people stop going on about Honda vtecs and Toyota 190 vvti engines when they have been unsaleable for what, 7 years now??? The gt86 and Mazda are the only remotely interesting NA engines on sale today (oh, plus Lotus) so we should be embracing them even if they need a bit of aftermarket tuning to compensate for the current emissions limitations.