RE: Lamborghini Urus spied at the Nurburgring
Discussion
number1nesta said:
sidesauce said:
number1nesta said:
many a black ash furnished bedroom
You had that?number1nesta said:
Tragic.
Definitely.These camo'd shots are always revealing in as much as there is no disguising the bulk (or lack) of the design.
The concept can do away with legislation and engineering compromise.
Only bling wheels, pretty jewellery and shouty colours will distract from what in reality as can be seen is a big fat ugly mess.
The concept can do away with legislation and engineering compromise.
Only bling wheels, pretty jewellery and shouty colours will distract from what in reality as can be seen is a big fat ugly mess.
number1nesta said:
sidesauce said:
number1nesta said:
many a black ash furnished bedroom
You had that?number1nesta said:
Tragic.
Definitely.Really set off my black Countach QV5000 and 959 models
I don't think there is a suggestion that the Urus won't be a very capable SUV.
My issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?). SUVs are popular, and the economics work of course, but given they are all fundamentally off the same platform, are we really being offered something new, or just another safe decision by fearful car company executives? Put it another way, how much better will it be than a Cayenne turbo? I suspect in reality not much.
Secondly it can be argued that strong car companies are a good thing. But strong at the expense of innovation and excitement? My issue isn't that VW makes money, it is that I live in a world where my13 year old (daughter in my case) doesn't want to own a Lamborghini. The Urus will not adorn anyone's wall let alone hers, and that to me is the saddest aspect of all this.
There are many wealthy followers of PH if their garages are to be believed. We can of course all roll over and watch (self driving) Teslas take over the world. Or we can try and make cars both aspirational and exciting again to the next generation, not just conform as Lamborghini is now with the Urus.
My issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?). SUVs are popular, and the economics work of course, but given they are all fundamentally off the same platform, are we really being offered something new, or just another safe decision by fearful car company executives? Put it another way, how much better will it be than a Cayenne turbo? I suspect in reality not much.
Secondly it can be argued that strong car companies are a good thing. But strong at the expense of innovation and excitement? My issue isn't that VW makes money, it is that I live in a world where my13 year old (daughter in my case) doesn't want to own a Lamborghini. The Urus will not adorn anyone's wall let alone hers, and that to me is the saddest aspect of all this.
There are many wealthy followers of PH if their garages are to be believed. We can of course all roll over and watch (self driving) Teslas take over the world. Or we can try and make cars both aspirational and exciting again to the next generation, not just conform as Lamborghini is now with the Urus.
I get what you are saying, but I think of these things slightly differently - let me explain:
For me, the 'platform' that is shared, just makes good business sense...if every house in my estate were built on the same foundations, that wouldn't bother me in the least - they would still look different and have different USPs.
I genuinely don't believe people are put off by the fact that there is an SUV in the range or that there is no innovation or excitement.
Robert-nszl1 said:
...there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?). SUVs are popular, and the economics work of course, but given they are all fundamentally off the same platform, are we really being offered something new, or just another safe decision by fearful car company executives? Put it another way, how much better will it be than a Cayenne turbo? I suspect in reality not much.
I think we are at a point where differentiators are 'in reality' not that much between a number of cars. Not in the everyday use case of the majority of drivers. A lot of the time it comes down to cosmetics and what people actually like. Perfect example being my wife who loves her Q5, but is not a fan of the other VAG products that use the same platform.For me, the 'platform' that is shared, just makes good business sense...if every house in my estate were built on the same foundations, that wouldn't bother me in the least - they would still look different and have different USPs.
Robert-nszl1 said:
Secondly it can be argued that strong car companies are a good thing. But strong at the expense of innovation and excitement? My issue isn't that VW makes money, it is that I live in a world where my13 year old (daughter in my case) doesn't want to own a Lamborghini. The Urus will not adorn anyone's wall let alone hers, and that to me is the saddest aspect of all this.
My take on 'bedroom walls' is that most sadly of all we now live in a world that is a lot less aspirational when it comes to vehicles. Be it the Labour mantra where if you have a penny more than someone else you are the devil and should be shot at, or simply that cars are not desirable items any more...I really don't know. But There's a real sense that if you drive a Lambo (or such like), then you are a show off who has no taste/doesn't deserve it/whatever.I genuinely don't believe people are put off by the fact that there is an SUV in the range or that there is no innovation or excitement.
Robert-nszl1 said:
There are many wealthy followers of PH if their garages are to be believed. We can of course all roll over and watch (self driving) Teslas take over the world. Or we can try and make cars both aspirational and exciting again to the next generation, not just conform as Lamborghini is now with the Urus.
Again, I don't believe Lambo is 'conforming'. I think they are simply expanding a product range. It's not at the expense of a new Aventador or a Huracan...it's as well as. How is that conforming? It's not. This is just like ASDA deciding to sell clothes as well as food...just good business.PhantomPH said:
Again, I don't believe Lambo is 'conforming'. I think they are simply expanding a product range. It's not at the expense of a new Aventador or a Huracan...it's as well as. How is that conforming? It's not. This is just like ASDA deciding to sell clothes as well as food...just good business.
Doesn't the mere mention of Lamborghini in the same breath as Asda not prove my point? Sure, cars can be seen as yet another consumer good, some more aspirational than others. But globalisation, branding, and the inevitable design by committee are destroying what made these machines aspirational and amazing in the first place. It is exactly that view that needs to change. Ferruccio Lamborghini set out to produce something he wanted, not because accountants and faceless marketing men told him it was a good idea. The irony is he probably has more in common with Elon Musk than the current Lamborghini management team. And no doubt many of you will argue that Lamborghini would have failed a long time ago would it have not been for the intervention of a strong owner. But if our children don't aspire as we did, these companies have a big problem, and it is that thin end of the wedge the Urus is eroding.Robert-nszl1 said:
Doesn't the mere mention of Lamborghini in the same breath as Asda not prove my point? Sure, cars can be seen as yet another consumer good, some more aspirational than others. But globalisation, branding, and the inevitable design by committee are destroying what made these machines aspirational and amazing in the first place. It is exactly that view that needs to change. Ferruccio Lamborghini set out to produce something he wanted, not because accountants and faceless marketing men told him it was a good idea. The irony is he probably has more in common with Elon Musk than the current Lamborghini management team. And no doubt many of you will argue that Lamborghini would have failed a long time ago would it have not been for the intervention of a strong owner. But if our children don't aspire as we did, these companies have a big problem, and it is that thin end of the wedge the Urus is eroding.
No, because instead of ASDA I could have used any one of a million other examples.Again, I must stress my point - this is not Lambo moving to the SUV market at the expense of any of their 'aspirational' products - it's AS WELL AS. If people don't aspire to own a Lambo, it's 100% NOT because they might be about to launch a 600bhp lump of craziness in SUV form. It's because of a much bigger (and more unfortunate) culture shift where the majority of people don't aspire to Lambos/Ferraris/Porsches anymore at all.
Let me put things a slightly different way - if Land Rover suddenly made a 2-seater Porsche Boxster rival using the Jag F-Type platform, would that make a FFRR less aspirational? No, it wouldn't. In the same way that I wouldn't turn down a GT3 because, "Porsche just lost that magic when the Cayenne was launched". It's not like they stopped making the GT3 and focused on the £20k Quashquai market!
But as an additional question I will ask anyone...how is a quarter-of-a-million pound, 600+bhp Lambo SUV NOT an aspirational product?
Robert-nszl1 said:
I don't think there is a suggestion that the Urus won't be a very capable SUV.
My issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?).
Oh no! Did no one tell you about the Bentayga? You lucky fella, I wouldn't go to google, it will only ruin your day.My issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?).
BevR said:
Oh no! Did no one tell you about the Bentayga? You lucky fella, I wouldn't go to google, it will only ruin your day.
Sadly I am indeed aware of said polished turd of a car. However given Bentleys have always produced lorries, it doesn't fill me with quite the same sense of gloom! Anyway I'll shut up now and let you all discuss the merits of the Urus vs an Audi Q7....The Moose said:
All I will say is:
Awesome truck - check the video review too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXKZAVEee74
Enjoyed that, thanks!Awesome truck - check the video review too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXKZAVEee74
Robert-nszl1 said:
I don't think there is a suggestion that the Urus won't be a very capable SUV.
My issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?). SUVs are popular, and the economics work of course, but given they are all fundamentally off the same platform, are we really being offered something new, or just another safe decision by fearful car company executives? Put it another way, how much better will it be than a Cayenne turbo? I suspect in reality not much.
Secondly it can be argued that strong car companies are a good thing. But strong at the expense of innovation and excitement? My issue isn't that VW makes money, it is that I live in a world where my13 year old (daughter in my case) doesn't want to own a Lamborghini. The Urus will not adorn anyone's wall let alone hers, and that to me is the saddest aspect of all this.
There are many wealthy followers of PH if their garages are to be believed. We can of course all roll over and watch (self driving) Teslas take over the world. Or we can try and make cars both aspirational and exciting again to the next generation, not just conform as Lamborghini is now with the Urus.
Well, at least Ferrari has no SUVMy issue is however twofold; there comes a point when every manufacturer has every segment covered regardless of the brand. OK an exaggeration but certainly they will all have SUVs. In VWs case from Skoda to Lamborghini all except Bugatti will be covered (and will Bugatti follow?). SUVs are popular, and the economics work of course, but given they are all fundamentally off the same platform, are we really being offered something new, or just another safe decision by fearful car company executives? Put it another way, how much better will it be than a Cayenne turbo? I suspect in reality not much.
Secondly it can be argued that strong car companies are a good thing. But strong at the expense of innovation and excitement? My issue isn't that VW makes money, it is that I live in a world where my13 year old (daughter in my case) doesn't want to own a Lamborghini. The Urus will not adorn anyone's wall let alone hers, and that to me is the saddest aspect of all this.
There are many wealthy followers of PH if their garages are to be believed. We can of course all roll over and watch (self driving) Teslas take over the world. Or we can try and make cars both aspirational and exciting again to the next generation, not just conform as Lamborghini is now with the Urus.
Although who knows for how long without Luca at the helm ... and after the IPO - probably only a matter of time
Robert-nszl1 said:
Sadly I am indeed aware of said polished turd of a car. However given Bentleys have always produced lorries, it doesn't fill me with quite the same sense of gloom! Anyway I'll shut up now and let you all discuss the merits of the Urus vs an Audi Q7....
I am not a fan of any of the SUVs but I thought the Bentayga was probably the weirdest one, until this came along...I dont think the people on here are the target audience. All of the people I know with Q7s are of the belief that nothing smaller could ever meet their child carrying needs.
BevR said:
I am not a fan of any of the SUVs but I thought the Bentayga was probably the weirdest one, until this came along...
I dont think the people on here are the target audience. All of the people I know with Q7s are of the belief that nothing smaller could ever meet their child carrying needs.
I've got an Urus on order and already have a Bentyga and a G63AMG to complete the holy trinity of hate. The Bentayga is dull as ditchwater though staggeringly quick, the G63 is hysterical in every single way but tiresome for any kind of vaguely long drive. I'm hoping the Urus combines the best of both. I dont think the people on here are the target audience. All of the people I know with Q7s are of the belief that nothing smaller could ever meet their child carrying needs.
The Urus will be the world's fastest production SUV in a straight line and round a track. It will be as fast as a Ferrari 458 supercar round the Ring.
Lambo currently has more models under the iconic Ring 7min mark than Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren all put together.
Lambo is experiencing a golden age of engineering and drivability / raceability. Right here and now. Good luck to them.
Lambo currently has more models under the iconic Ring 7min mark than Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren all put together.
Lambo is experiencing a golden age of engineering and drivability / raceability. Right here and now. Good luck to them.
PhantomPH said:
big_rob_sydney said:
FFS. What's next? A 2CV running round the ring? At least that didn't weigh the equivalent of the QE2 or a beached whale...
I must have missed where the weights were published.Mind you, I'm the PH exception to the rule these days - I couldn't give a flying fornicate about the weight of any car! At no point have I ever looked at any of my cars and thought, "I wonder what it weighs"...I just drive the things.
That being said, I do agree with the strange compulsion to put everything around The Ring - some things don't really belong there as that's not necessarily the target use of the car. I guess if VAG have paid for the track, they may as well use it. :shrug:
But this just reminds me of a fat pig wearing a condom trying to be aerodynamic, whilst admiring itself in the mirror.
Seriously, do you not see the irony?
big_rob_sydney said:
PhantomPH said:
big_rob_sydney said:
FFS. What's next? A 2CV running round the ring? At least that didn't weigh the equivalent of the QE2 or a beached whale...
I must have missed where the weights were published.Mind you, I'm the PH exception to the rule these days - I couldn't give a flying fornicate about the weight of any car! At no point have I ever looked at any of my cars and thought, "I wonder what it weighs"...I just drive the things.
That being said, I do agree with the strange compulsion to put everything around The Ring - some things don't really belong there as that's not necessarily the target use of the car. I guess if VAG have paid for the track, they may as well use it. :shrug:
But this just reminds me of a fat pig wearing a condom trying to be aerodynamic, whilst admiring itself in the mirror.
Seriously, do you not see the irony?
It's a shame that it looks nothing like the 2012 concept. Instead it's just going to be yet another massive and massively ugly Audi Q-something derivative.
This is the sort of sporting SUV that Lamborghini should be building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx6T9b3CXpY
This is the sort of sporting SUV that Lamborghini should be building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx6T9b3CXpY
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff