RE: Alfa Giulia vs. BMW M3 vs. Mercedes-AMG C63 S
Discussion
Denorth said:
GTEYE said:
And £60k brand new cars just aren't expected to suffer failures like this.
Alfa, you've just lost the room.
May I remind about Porsche GT3 spectacularly fiery failure and followed recall of all of them? Did they lose the room as well?Alfa, you've just lost the room.
EDIT: and how about BMW M5 and M6 driveshaft failures and recall?
Edited by Denorth on Thursday 18th May 14:03
The thing is, none of those examples were desperately attempting to lose a public perception for unreliability. Alfa may well be up there with the Germans when it comes to reliability but being "as good" isn't good enough because every time an Alfa fails it reinforces the stereotype and every time a German car fails it's viewed as a one-off.
I've always owned cars from the VAG hatchery. But during good years I spoil myself with a straight-6 BMW (and one time, a 4-pot diesel!) so I guess I should be pleased about the result here...
Well I'm not, because deep inside of me lies a latent Alfa Romeo fanboy who's always wanted the Italians to produce the kind of stuff I grew up around like an 80's Guilietta Quadrofoglio or a 3,0 GTV with rear-wheel drive! So now when, at long last, they do decide to produce something I'd be willing to sink my hard-earned Rands into I'm left thinking if this is an isolated incident or if, worst case scenario, Alfa still don't have there ducks in a row!
Well I'm not, because deep inside of me lies a latent Alfa Romeo fanboy who's always wanted the Italians to produce the kind of stuff I grew up around like an 80's Guilietta Quadrofoglio or a 3,0 GTV with rear-wheel drive! So now when, at long last, they do decide to produce something I'd be willing to sink my hard-earned Rands into I'm left thinking if this is an isolated incident or if, worst case scenario, Alfa still don't have there ducks in a row!
Denorth said:
May I remind about Porsche GT3 spectacularly fiery failure and followed recall of all of them? Did they lose the room as well?
EDIT: and how about BMW M5 and M6 driveshaft failures and recall?
.... and 458 italia fireballs (rear wheel arch glue or something ridiculous) EDIT: and how about BMW M5 and M6 driveshaft failures and recall?
Edited by Denorth on Thursday 18th May 14:03
981C said:
"It's a little bit heavier than the Giulia"
Can we please stop with this misinformation?
The M3 is nearly 100kg lighter than the Giulia. Don't quote weight unless you measure them directly.
Can we please stop with this misinformation?
The M3 is nearly 100kg lighter than the Giulia. Don't quote weight unless you measure them directly.
Bugger it; bang to rights. That 1,580kg we quoted figure for the Alfa Romeo is seemingly out of date and from our original drive story. Official numbers now saying 1,620kg DIN, equating to 1,695kg with the EU 75kg driver/luggage. So that's M3 1,635kg (with M DCT), Giulia 1,695kg and Mercedes 1,715kg by the same standard including 75kg driver/luggage. Spec boxes and copy updated accordingly, please accept apologies for mix-up and thanks for bringing it to our attention. Thanks/apologies,
Dan
Dale7355 said:
So the Alfa quadrifoglio had problems
Just like my brand new one only done 103 miles broke down twice last weekend 2 call outs to Alfa for recovery
Now car has had interior taken apart including dash board also having boot repainted and I have no replacement quadrifoglio
I have now made up my mind to reject this new car and today I will be collecting my personal belonging out of the car and dealer can shove it where the sun don't shine and I either want a full refund or a replacement brand new car
I have spent less than one hour 20 mins in the drivers seat and mechanics have spent longer in the seat ripping the dash out
I have lost the brand new experience of a new car the smell etc..
Alfa please get your act together
Dale 7355
Oh dear...Just like my brand new one only done 103 miles broke down twice last weekend 2 call outs to Alfa for recovery
Now car has had interior taken apart including dash board also having boot repainted and I have no replacement quadrifoglio
I have now made up my mind to reject this new car and today I will be collecting my personal belonging out of the car and dealer can shove it where the sun don't shine and I either want a full refund or a replacement brand new car
I have spent less than one hour 20 mins in the drivers seat and mechanics have spent longer in the seat ripping the dash out
I have lost the brand new experience of a new car the smell etc..
Alfa please get your act together
Dale 7355
This doesn't bode well, sorry about your dilemma and I hope you have a good outcome.
Deerfoot said:
vz-r_dave said:
Its the PH way.... make ridiculous comments based on nothing......
The comment was based on information from the editorial wasn`t it?kambites said:
If that's true, someone in the press department probably deserves to lose their job.
Yep
I have had the same issue happen on my car.
Quick look on an obd reader shows it's a comms error.
A week later I receive a service recall and there is a two day service package update a large part of which is software updates to the various ECUs as a result of comms dropouts.
Maybe press office ignored or were not told by engineering/ product management either way it's poor administration.
GTEYE said:
And £60k brand new cars just aren't expected to suffer failures like this.
Alfa, you've just lost the room.
I love the old "it's not acceptable in a *insert arbitrary value number here" line.Alfa, you've just lost the room.
Are cars which cost less than £60K expected to ?
At what price point does it become acceptable for cars to go wrong ?
The fact is that this is a digital problem the like of which impacts plenty of cars. It has been diagnosed and a remedy applied. What's annoying is that it could have been prevented.
As an owner of a Giulia Q and somebody who has previously had M cars and AMGs all I can say is go and try one first hand so you can get your own take on the various positives Dan picked up on.
Whatever you do not listen to the advice of the PH forum sages who haven't driven one.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 18th May 15:40
I would expect any brand new car to have teething problems. There is always going to the unlucky few, but at the end of the day that is what a warranty is for.
As long as it doesn't become too common, for me Alfa all day long!
Can't believe - for an automotive forum - how many still spell it 'Alpha'. I'm not a pedant by nature, but seriously, hang your heads in shame!
As long as it doesn't become too common, for me Alfa all day long!
Can't believe - for an automotive forum - how many still spell it 'Alpha'. I'm not a pedant by nature, but seriously, hang your heads in shame!
RSK21 said:
GTEYE said:
And £60k brand new cars just aren't expected to suffer failures like this.
Alfa, you've just lost the room.
I love the old "it's not acceptable in a *insert arbitrary value number here" line.Alfa, you've just lost the room.
Are cars which cost less than £60K expected to ?
At what price point does it become acceptable for cars to go wrong ?
The fact is that this is a digital problem the like of which impacts plenty of cars. It has been diagnosed and a remedy applied. What's annoying is that it could have been prevented.
As an owner of a Giulia Q and somebody who has previously had M cars and AMGs all I can say is go and try one first hand so you can get your own take on the various positives Dan picked up on.
Whatever you do not listen to the advice of the PH forum sages who haven't driven one.
Edited by RSK21 on Thursday 18th May 15:40
As others have noted German cars have been known to go wrong, but Alfa Romeo have a rather unfortunate (and perhaps undeserved) reputation for unreliability. Given that the Giulia was delayed to get the quality right, the fact that press cars are going wrong, along with some PH members cars (see above comments) suggest that the quality issues might still be rather commonplace.
Given that the majority of Giulia sales (not QV) will be expected to come from the fleet market, if there are any consistent pattern of problems or unreliability, I stand by the comment that Alfa will have lost the room.
Whether deserved or not, the German rivals don't have this reputational issue....and aren't judged so harshly.
This was the car that needed to be better than the Germans in this respect....
I have the Alfa, and have done 3000 trouble free miles in the last two months. No rattles, niggles (apart from a quick infotainment system refresh) or any hint of issues. Alfa themselves have been first rate, track day at Milbrook (this Saturday) and came home last week to parcel in post which contained leather notebook, metal QV keyring, hardbound book on history of the brand...and two free tickets to Goodwood FoS with Alfa hospitality.
It's sad to see that not all are working as they should. Would that stop me buying one again? No. I'd recommend one to anyone in a heartbeart (and make sure you spec the carbon seats, worth every penny). It's a family car, a hooligan and a Ferrari wrapped up in one. I am sure Merc, BMW, Porsche never have any issues at all, ever.
It's sad to see that not all are working as they should. Would that stop me buying one again? No. I'd recommend one to anyone in a heartbeart (and make sure you spec the carbon seats, worth every penny). It's a family car, a hooligan and a Ferrari wrapped up in one. I am sure Merc, BMW, Porsche never have any issues at all, ever.
k up things in the last mile those Italians (says an Italian)hondansx said:
I would expect any brand new car to have teething problems. There is always going to the unlucky few, but at the end of the day that is what a warranty is for.
As long as it doesn't become too common, for me Alfa all day long!
Can't believe - for an automotive forum - how many still spell it 'Alpha'. I'm not a pedant by nature, but seriously, hang your heads in shame!
Without trying to be too disrespectful I think you should expect this, it's hardly a forum of automotive experts As long as it doesn't become too common, for me Alfa all day long!
Can't believe - for an automotive forum - how many still spell it 'Alpha'. I'm not a pedant by nature, but seriously, hang your heads in shame!
Perhaps I'm a bit needy but I'd like the aesthetics and dynamics of the Alfa with the reliability of the Mercedes (ok, I'll await being shot down over how (un)reliable a Mercedes can be....)
The BMW? Just meh. The further from the original E30 M3 they have evolved, the less desirable they seem to become to me.
Anyhoo, the men in the rubber ambulance have come to collect me and whisk me back to my padded cell....
The BMW? Just meh. The further from the original E30 M3 they have evolved, the less desirable they seem to become to me.
Anyhoo, the men in the rubber ambulance have come to collect me and whisk me back to my padded cell....
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