Modern Cars- No Character!?
Discussion
ian2144 said:
I did look at the MX5, boot space is diabolical and for a two week continental tour, out of the question....!
The boot isn't massive. But it's not really any worse than any other 2 sports car in this size class, no matter what era you are looking at. So if you are saying the MX-5 boot is too small for you. Then the subtext is all sports cars will be too small for you.
That said, it's about packaging. Squishy bags and careful packing and it's probably amazing how much stuff you can pack into a small space.
Ahbefive said:
Have to disagree indeed, the mk3 is miles more fun and playful, mk1 is merely raw due to its feeling of old age.
A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
You want overdriven rear wheels, get a rwd car, m3, cosxter, AMG etc. Not a 4wd car that is trying to be all things to all men. It's compromised. A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
Ah the monthly "modern cars are all boring" thread.
OP: modern cars are all dull!
Poster 1: X car is fun
OP: yes, but it's totally rubbish because Y.
Poster 2: Well that can be sorted with Y. Or what about car Z
OP: No. Don't want to do that.
Not all modern cars are dull at all. We probably have more choice than ever. Mainstream cars have always been rather dull. Now they are very competent and dull rather than a bit rubbish.
OP: modern cars are all dull!
Poster 1: X car is fun
OP: yes, but it's totally rubbish because Y.
Poster 2: Well that can be sorted with Y. Or what about car Z
OP: No. Don't want to do that.
Not all modern cars are dull at all. We probably have more choice than ever. Mainstream cars have always been rather dull. Now they are very competent and dull rather than a bit rubbish.
Alpinestars said:
Ahbefive said:
Have to disagree indeed, the mk3 is miles more fun and playful, mk1 is merely raw due to its feeling of old age.
A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
You want overdriven rear wheels, get a rwd car, m3, cosxter, AMG etc. Not a 4wd car that is trying to be all things to all men. It's compromised. A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
I see it as a modern day Evo or Impreza that can get a bit sideways and achieve 30mpg , not a £70k mega barge that can achieve 18mpg and every service costs £1k. Different cars at different prices.
Edited by Ahbefive on Saturday 20th May 07:21
Ahbefive said:
Alpinestars said:
Ahbefive said:
Have to disagree indeed, the mk3 is miles more fun and playful, mk1 is merely raw due to its feeling of old age.
A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
You want overdriven rear wheels, get a rwd car, m3, cosxter, AMG etc. Not a 4wd car that is trying to be all things to all men. It's compromised. A front LSD is good but is nowhere near as fun as overdriven rear wheels. For a modern car tge mo3 has bags of character where most new cars do not.
I see it as a modern day Evo or Impreza that can get a bit sideways and achieve 30mpg , not a £70k mega barge that can achieve 18mpg and every service costs £1k. Different cars at different prices.
Edited by Ahbefive on Saturday 20th May 07:19
You keep moving the goalposts. As a driving machine, the frs is flawed - in my view. Pogo stick suspension, 4 Wd, e steering etc etc. Can it carry 5 people, has it got a foolproof mode, does it cost less than 35k, are servicing costs reasonable? Yes. Does that make it a good drivers' car. No.
In your opinion which is contrary to pretty much every review and roadtest of the car.
Also? no we are not talking about drivers cars, try reading the thread title, it is about character and for a modern car the RS has it in spades which is hard at its price point. £150k cars, yes of course it is easier to find character in them.
Also? no we are not talking about drivers cars, try reading the thread title, it is about character and for a modern car the RS has it in spades which is hard at its price point. £150k cars, yes of course it is easier to find character in them.
Ahbefive said:
In your opinion which is contrary to pretty much every review and roadtest of the car.
Also? no we are not talking about drivers cars, try reading the thread title, it is about character and for a modern car the RS has it in spades which is hard at its price point. £150k cars, yes of course it is easier to find character in them.
Character ain't about how many people the car carries or the price of a car ....Also? no we are not talking about drivers cars, try reading the thread title, it is about character and for a modern car the RS has it in spades which is hard at its price point. £150k cars, yes of course it is easier to find character in them.
Alpinestars said:
Character ain't about how many people the car carries or the price of a car ....
Now you are just being silly.I said why it has character, and for the price it is hard to beat on that front. Noisy, lairy handling, lairy looks, sharp pointy steering and sporty characteristics give it great character in my book. Then you suggest its not as full of character as a 2seater worth twice the price
Yes well I'm sure your car also has a tiny fraction of the character that a Zonda does.
Jonmx said:
ian2144 said:
mikefacel said:
Ahbefive said:
Alpinestars said:
Character ain't about how many people the car carries or the price of a car ....
Now you are just being silly.I said why it has character, and for the price it is hard to beat on that front. Noisy, lairy handling, lairy looks, sharp pointy steering and sporty characteristics give it great character in my book. Then you suggest its not as full of character as a 2seater worth twice the price
Yes well I'm sure your car also has a tiny fraction of the character that a Zonda does.
The cars I said have a character can all be bought for less than an FRS. Not that that has anything to do with character.
Sorry but which brand new M3, Boxster or AMG can be bought for less that £34k? Or are you now comparing old cars with new cars (apples and potatoes) and totally missing the point of the reasons as to why someone would want to buy a new car.
Edited by Ahbefive on Saturday 20th May 08:41
av185 said:
Turbos are the problem.
Of course they are, the amount of times people get out of group b rally cars and say i wish I was more involved in the drive. Or the old turbo f1 cars, no involvement in driving one of those either and were boring.Less sarcasm now, it's because cars are more refined nowadays. And so suit a more laid back driver who occasionally puts their foot down in a straight line. Rest of the time spent doing 80mph on the motorway in huge comfort
Ahbefive said:
Sorry but which brand new M3, Boxster or AMG can be bought for less that £34k? Or are you now comparing old cars with new cars (apples and potatoes) and totally missing the point of the reasons as to why someone would want to buy a new car.
Fun and rear wheels. Your words not mine. You want rear wheel drive fun, get a rear wheel drive car. Pretty simple really. Edited by Ahbefive on Saturday 20th May 08:41
If you want to keep moving the goal posts, ultimately, what's the best 4wd, seats 5 people, does the shopping that Dagenham currently produces at c£30k? iI's your car. Feel less insecure now?
Things change, the world moves on.
Back when everything was black and white, and Britain Ruled the Waves, we had cars and roads like this:
You had to be a real man to drive those, doing "advanced" things like double de-clutching and greasing your trunion bearings every 63 miles. But, as a result, that interaction, felt like character.
Fast forward 60 years, and our roads more often look like this:
We expect to never have to lift the bonnet and go thousands of miles between services, we want all the modern convenience features, we want to be un-injured after a large crash, was want to get 60mpg, drive quietly, comfortablly, and yet go quickly when required. We want all those things, and generally, the car manufacturers have given us exactly what we want.
People who want a character car are very much in the minority. But luckily for them, they can still buy one, and the UK in particular is blessed with having a number of specialist, low volume manufacturers (Like Lotus... ;-) who will sell you such a car.
Back when everything was black and white, and Britain Ruled the Waves, we had cars and roads like this:
You had to be a real man to drive those, doing "advanced" things like double de-clutching and greasing your trunion bearings every 63 miles. But, as a result, that interaction, felt like character.
Fast forward 60 years, and our roads more often look like this:
We expect to never have to lift the bonnet and go thousands of miles between services, we want all the modern convenience features, we want to be un-injured after a large crash, was want to get 60mpg, drive quietly, comfortablly, and yet go quickly when required. We want all those things, and generally, the car manufacturers have given us exactly what we want.
People who want a character car are very much in the minority. But luckily for them, they can still buy one, and the UK in particular is blessed with having a number of specialist, low volume manufacturers (Like Lotus... ;-) who will sell you such a car.
For me, cars stopped interesting me from 2007 onwards. I just wouldn't buy a new car. There are exceptions, E.G McLaren, any new Volvo look really good to me, the 335d is still impressive and if this was a few months earlier then I'd say the Swift Sport. But for the vast majority of cases a used sports car is probably better than a new one. For the price of an M4 you could have an M3 CSL or an immaculate E92. Where as an M4 will just keep depreciating for the next decade, a CSL will climb.
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