0-60/Power Figures - Where Does It End?

[aaron_2000]

I was browsing Autotrader and realised that a new A45 AMG does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. That makes it faster to 60 than a 9 year old Gallardo Spyder. So does this mean in 9 years we'll have Huracan beating hot hatches? Where does it end? Surely the fun of a hot hatch is a car that you an rev to redline, get lift off oversteer in corners but not need to be a really good driver to do so?

[XMT]

I ponder this myself sometimes.

"what next"

First it was outright power? then economy, then 0-60 times then torque

Whats going to be the next "thing" the manufactuers focus on and harp on about

[RBH58]

XMT said:

I ponder this myself sometimes.

"what next"

First it was outright power? then economy, then 0-60 times then torque

Whats going to be the next "thing" the manufactuers focus on and harp on about

Recharge times

[Yipper]

They can get down to at least 1.5secs to 60mph. So there is at least a decade or two before hot hatches get there. Adding in electric motors will make them even quicker in the 2020s.

[RBH58]

What's the point? Does going 0-60 in 4 secs make it anymore useful or fun than being able to do it in 6 secs? It's simply a pointless pub pissing contest. I'd rather have a slow RS275 than an boring Haldex'd A45 slot car.

[tejr]

I'm guessing its another car with launch control?

Also, I'm guessing the arms race will end when we shift to electric cars.. not long left then

[Ultrafunkula]

The German arms race is a boring version of the Japanese arms race in the 90's. Audi, Merc and BMW need to put the guns away and go back to basics, lead by example imo. Assuming self driving cars don't take over in the near future, anyway...

[cib24]

It will end somewhere around the theoretical limit of 0-60mph on road legal tires.

Engineering Explained tried to estimate what that could be.

https://youtu.be/nAvIVGGhEis

[Meridius]

I think we are bordering on the limits of what numbers cars can do now. In future years automotive industry will have to go another route of progress rather than just constantly cutting down numbers with each new model. What that new route will be though, I have no idea.

[J4CKO]

I think with EV's it will be trivially easy to give them huge acceleration, the Teslas are the first tranche and will look old hat fairly soon, even if new models dont outdo them, < 5 sec to sixty is simple as long as the traction is there.

Monster acceleration is just a byproduct rather than the reason with an electric motor, the whole car doesnt have to be "sporty" to be fast, the engine tends to get bigger in an IC as power rises, eletric motors for the same power output are a lot smaller.

IC engined cars have got faster as well, modern Turbo diesels are everywhere and pretty rapid, enough for most normal folk, so an EV's performance may be limited more by software, it could go faster but the owners dont need it to, the insurers dotn want it to.

I know it sounds mad to say you dont want to go that fast and you can just use as much throttle as you want but it is actually quite uncomfortable in a model S, not everyone likes that much force and it is total overkill so suspect they may be reigned in.

It does worry me how a Model S with 4wd can do 0-60 in 2.5 seconds and weighs so much, what happens when you get someone who gets the wrong pedal ?

[300bhp/ton]

aaron_2000 said:

I was browsing Autotrader and realised that a new A45 AMG does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. That makes it faster to 60 than a 9 year old Gallardo Spyder. So does this mean in 9 years we'll have Huracan beating hot hatches? Where does it end? Surely the fun of a hot hatch is a car that you an rev to redline, get lift off oversteer in corners but not need to be a really good driver to do so?

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

[JuniorD]

Once 0-60 becomes a benchmark that all cars can comfortably meet, the new litmus test will have to be 0-120. That will separate the men form the boys, for a decade or so.

[RBH58]

JuniorD said:

Once 0-60 becomes a benchmark that all cars can comfortably meet, the new litmus test will have to be 0-120. That will separate the men form the boys, for a decade or so.

Where the only place in the world you can do that is Germany, and in places like the UK and Australia it will see your licence shredded, again...what's the point?

[aaron_2000]

300bhp/ton said:

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

That's exactly my point! Plenty of people could have an XR3, or an RS Turbo or a GTE. Even recently, the ST170, Cupra R 225, Civic Type R were affordable, well powered, enjoyable cars that were still in reach of plenty of people. After extras who can really justify an A45 at over 40k. Especially as the early 2000's cars I listed will be just as quick in the real world.

[tankplanker]

A standard TT-RS can hit a repeatable 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, 0-100 in 8.6 seconds, 0-130 in 14.9 seconds, so the new RS3 won't be that far behind, that has to be the fasted hot hatch available new for even remotely sensible money? This obviously has a knock on effect with the performance of the models further up the range, so the RS4/RS6/R8 have to faster still.

However I could see a hot hatch version of the new Tesla Model 3 beating that by a significant margin. The days of 0-60 in ~2 seconds in an electric hatch back can't be that far off if the P100D Model S can do it in 2.28 seconds.

[jan8p]

cib24 said:

It will end somewhere around the theoretical limit of 0-60mph on road legal tires.

Engineering Explained tried to estimate what that could be.

https://youtu.be/nAvIVGGhEis

Slightly off topic but I love this guy, his videos are awesome.

[mgv8]

Under 3sec will always be hard as there are all kind of things hitting the limit. What its is like to live with....just ask most motorbike owners. Mine 2.8s to 60mph and 6.1 to 100mph.
The hot-hatch will need 4wd or rwd so will not really be a hot-hatch?

[SonicShadow]

jan8p said:

cib24 said:

It will end somewhere around the theoretical limit of 0-60mph on road legal tires.

Engineering Explained tried to estimate what that could be.

https://youtu.be/nAvIVGGhEis

Slightly off topic but I love this guy, his videos are awesome.

hullo everyone and welcome!

[Dave Hedgehog]

aaron_2000 said:

I was browsing Autotrader and realised that a new A45 AMG does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. That makes it faster to 60 than a 9 year old Gallardo Spyder. So does this mean in 9 years we'll have Huracan beating hot hatches? Where does it end? Surely the fun of a hot hatch is a car that you an rev to redline, get lift off oversteer in corners but not need to be a really good driver to do so?

you are chasing diminishing returns with performance times, i doubt there will be big gains over tesla's 2.2 sec 0-60 time any time soon unless they start supplying drag strip tyres on cars

although the TTRS is probably the king of the 'budget' traffic light GP cars atm, it destroys AHR A45 which is supposed to be 450bhp


https://youtu.be/sqD_rzGTc9s?t=211

[GroundEffect]

aaron_2000 said:

300bhp/ton said:

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

That's exactly my point! Plenty of people could have an XR3, or an RS Turbo or a GTE. Even recently, the ST170, Cupra R 225, Civic Type R were affordable, well powered, enjoyable cars that were still in reach of plenty of people. After extras who can really justify an A45 at over 40k. Especially as the early 2000's cars I listed will be just as quick in the real world.

The A45 is hardly a modern-day XR3...

Go look at the Focus ST or Golf GTI to get what you want.