0-60/Power Figures - Where Does It End?

[HedgeyGedgey]

300bhp/ton said:

But have you seen the price of an A45 AMG.... hardly attainable to the masses is it.

That's why they're all on PCP pay monthly. Awaits abuse hehe

[Ultrafunkula]

People would rather own a new AMG A45 through pcp than save for a house deposit it seems. That will end at one point and they'll have to buy cheaper I suppose, maybe hyper hatches will then disappear...

[BlueMR2]

When the car finance bubble bursts, whenever that may be, barely anyone will pay out their own money in advance for overpriced shopping trolleys.

It would come as no surprise if the number of "stolen cars" found burnt out increases heavily from people looking to get out of deals, in which case insurance will shoot up again and no one will be able to afford a sporty golf r etc, they will be the modern escort/sierra cosworth's and the cycle will begin again.

[Caddyshack]

RBH58 said:

JuniorD said:

Once 0-60 becomes a benchmark that all cars can comfortably meet, the new litmus test will have to be 0-120. That will separate the men form the boys, for a decade or so.

Where the only place in the world you can do that is Germany, and in places like the UK and Australia it will see your licence shredded, again...what's the point?

I think that a car that is capable of 0-120 in a very short time is still relevant...it doesn't mean that you will regularly do 120mph, it just means that when you pull out to overtake at say 55mph it will get up to 85 very quickly making for a fast and efficient overtake, you do not have to press on to 120, it just means the car is still accelerating hard after 60mph...which is often where the massaged figures fail as another gear needs to be slotted in (assuming a normal manual)

I would also argue that although an AMG 45 can do a quicker 0-60 than a Gallardo under launch control it probably feel MUCH slower in normal driving compared to the Gallardo. (especially 0-120?)

[Dave Hedgehog]

Caddyshack said:

I would also argue that although an AMG 45 can do a quicker 0-60 than a Gallardo under launch control it probably feel MUCH slower in normal driving compared to the Gallardo. (especially 0-120?)

i wouldn't bet against the A45, its not like the RS3 and has a pretty well sorted handling wise, it appears to have been setup for the 0-100/120 sprint but as most people live under 100 on public roads that makes a lot of sense

it beats all the other merc AMGs to 100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HAJ9x70HE

[Hol]

4.3sec 0-60 is nothing new for a production car with 4 seats. I had a factory standard Subaru STI TYpeR that did those numbers in 1999 and my neighbour had an EVO6 with similar performance. And they did it without any fancy launch control or computer-assisted gear changes.

So, 18 years ago, what made a 4.3sec supercar any better than a 4.3sec family car?
Only the fact that it carried on performing at those levels all the way to 200mph, instead of hitting its limit 60 odd mph earlier.

[J4CKO]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Caddyshack said:

I would also argue that although an AMG 45 can do a quicker 0-60 than a Gallardo under launch control it probably feel MUCH slower in normal driving compared to the Gallardo. (especially 0-120?)

i wouldn't bet against the A45, its not like the RS3 and has a pretty well sorted handling wise, it appears to have been setup for the 0-100/120 sprint but as most people live under 100 on public roads that makes a lot of sense

it beats all the other merc AMGs to 100

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-HAJ9x70HE

Used to, and only because its 4wd and the others werent, cant see that being the case with the new E63 though.

[RedAMG45]

Just seen this thread
I am sorry if you think the A45 is boring you are living on another planet
Car makers can not win the A45 is useable everyday car and delivers great all round package
I had a non facelift version for 2 years and picked up a facelift version in December
I went for Non-Aero so it does not get unwanted attention
For money the performance is very good and I am happy to spend the money
I could not justfy a C63 but the grip and fun I have with the A45 is brilliant
Go for a test drive

[Dave Hedgehog]

J4CKO said:

Used to, and only because its 4wd and the others werent, cant see that being the case with the new E63 though.

very good point sir !


that is a beast i want to get my paws on

[DoYouEvenBoost]

Hol said:

4.3sec 0-60 is nothing new for a production car with 4 seats. I had a factory standard Subaru STI TYpeR that did those numbers in 1999 and my neighbour had an EVO6 with similar performance. And they did it without any fancy launch control or computer-assisted gear changes.

So, 18 years ago, what made a 4.3sec supercar any better than a 4.3sec family car?
Only the fact that it carried on performing at those levels all the way to 200mph, instead of hitting its limit 60 odd mph earlier.

Because "superior german car" don't you know. The scooby and Evo would also probably still beat it down a road, at least never let it get away all for a fraction of the price.

I'd still rather have the Gallardo too because when you're not doing 0-60 sprints, it's still awesome. I don't think I could ever be so high that I spend over £40k on a small hatchback no matter how fast it is.

[HedgeyGedgey]

DoYouEvenBoost said:

I don't think I could ever be so high that I spend over £40k on a small hatchback no matter how fast it is.

But its not £40k only £400pm lol. Need to stop with these PCP jokes before the finance fanboys see them haha

[300bhp/ton]

HedgeyGedgey said:

That's why they're all on PCP pay monthly. Awaits abuse hehe

But for how much a month? Surely you'll need a hefty deposit to get even remotely sane monthly payments.

[Commander2874]

For me a hot hatch is about having fun and not how quick i can get to 0-60.

I have a 330 bmw and a civic type r fn2 and despite the beemer being quicker the type r is the most fun

[clarkey]

I think the progression of the car capable of 0-60 in 6 seconds and 150mph is interesting:

1950s - Mercedes 300sl
1960s - Ferrari 250GTO, the E-Type
1970s - Porsche 911 turbo
1980s - Porsche 911, then Sierra Cosworth
1990s - Impreza Turbo
2017 - All hot hatches

So there has been a fairly steady progression to have performance that was once supercar standards to hot hatches. The modern Golf GTi has pretty much identical performance to a 1996 Impreza Turbo or 1982 911SC, but at nearly 40mpg. Long may it continue!

[DoYouEvenBoost]

clarkey said:

I think the progression of the car capable of 0-60 in 6 seconds and 150mph is interesting:

1950s - Mercedes 300sl
1960s - Ferrari 250GTO, the E-Type
1970s - Porsche 911 turbo
1980s - Porsche 911, then Sierra Cosworth
1990s - Impreza Turbo
2017 - All hot hatches

So there has been a fairly steady progression to have performance that was once supercar standards to hot hatches. The modern Golf GTi has pretty much identical performance to a 1996 Impreza Turbo or 1982 911SC, but at nearly 40mpg. Long may it continue!

Only alteration I'd make is they're all European cars (sans the Scooby), anything remotely sporty from Japan was cracking 6 seconds from the 80s onwards. Mr2 turbos, skylines, supras, silvias etc. etc. They just knew how to go faster than us for cheaper. R32 GTR was 4.7 seconds to 60 in 1989

[aaron_2000]

DoYouEvenBoost said:

Only alteration I'd make is they're all European cars (sans the Scooby), anything remotely sporty from Japan was cracking 6 seconds from the 80s onwards. Mr2 turbos, skylines, supras, silvias etc. etc. They just knew how to go faster than us for cheaper. R32 GTR was 4.7 seconds to 60 in 1989

It's widely believed/known that the Impreza Type R and the 22B would be able to do it in under 4 seconds.

[clarkey]

aaron_2000 said:

It's widely believed/known that the Impreza Type R and the 22B would be able to do it in under 4 seconds.

The generational shift is amazing - 6 seconds and 150mph was the hypercar of the day (300SL, GTO) but the E-Type took this performance to sports car levels - I think he E-type really skipped the generation of this performance at supercar level. Now it is available in a hot hatch accessible by most.

[RBH58]

RedAMG45 said:

Just seen this thread
I am sorry if you think the A45 is boring you are living on another planet
Car makers can not win the A45 is useable everyday car and delivers great all round package
I had a non facelift version for 2 years and picked up a facelift version in December
I went for Non-Aero so it does not get unwanted attention
For money the performance is very good and I am happy to spend the money
I could not justfy a C63 but the grip and fun I have with the A45 is brilliant
Go for a test drive

Must be living in another planet then LOL. My wife's employer owns MB dealerships and they desperately wanted to sell me one. Had 3 test drives including one that included having one for a weekend. Underwhelmed apart from stonking straighline acceleration. I just don't like Haldex AWD.

[Alex_225]

I have often wondered where the 0-60 battle will end but then if you look at the likes of an RS3/A45 etc they're not cheap cars and in one respect they're beyond what a hot hatch would be in the minds of many.

Being accessible is what make a hot hatch what it is, spending £40k+ on a very very fast hatch back puts them into a different category but they're not cheap as such so still out of the reach to many people.

Regardless of my thoughts on a hot hatch or a hyper hatch or whatever to call them, they'll keep shaving times down until there's no where else to go. There'll be electrically assisted hybrids or full on electric cars which will be easy to get quick. Look at the acceleration of the Tesla models.

The bigger question for me is, will they have any kind of character? I'd gladly have my CLS which still hits 60 in a respectable 4.5 seconds over something that does it in 3.5 seconds because it has a V8 and more soul than an electric car. I guess though even though I just hit 35 I'm a bit of a dinosaur! haha

[K8-600]

These car's aren't anything new as has been said, they are just more common.

A Impreza Type R/Evo (or one of the other many special models) made in 1999 will beat them from 0-60, however where they are different is they also double as comfortable, well equipped cars whereas the Impreza was very raw.

I'd encourage more PH'ers to get on a bike, not only is the experience amazing but for very little cost you can have a bike that will destroy these cars, if that's your thing. Personally I like fast bikes because they provide a raw, visceral experience and even normal day to day riding you can make great progress without much effort. Bikes are also far more difficult to master and become good at than cars.