what to expect with RWD
Discussion
phil1979 said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Dannbodge said:
Don't worry too much about it.
ABS, TCS and DSC will keep 99% of teh problems under control.
Just don't be stupid
yep, most normal RWD cars are extremely well sorted, its often hard to tell that they are RWD ABS, TCS and DSC will keep 99% of teh problems under control.
Just don't be stupid
Great handling car and really fun, but as docile as anything else when driven sensibly. Leave it in comfort or sport and the system will help keep it safe enough.
The reality is smooth inputs and sensible speeds will help. I went FWD hot hatch to 300hp RWD BMW and I have had no issues. This thing has more grip and traction then my old SEAT, even under throttle.
Regarding tyres, you'll need to invest in high quality rubber to keep safe traction and grip levels. Cheap rubber might be OK when pottering about, but your braking distances will be longer and the risk of loosing grip when not expected is higher. Michelin PilotSport 4 is a good choice.
In any event, don't worry about it.
The reality is smooth inputs and sensible speeds will help. I went FWD hot hatch to 300hp RWD BMW and I have had no issues. This thing has more grip and traction then my old SEAT, even under throttle.
Regarding tyres, you'll need to invest in high quality rubber to keep safe traction and grip levels. Cheap rubber might be OK when pottering about, but your braking distances will be longer and the risk of loosing grip when not expected is higher. Michelin PilotSport 4 is a good choice.
In any event, don't worry about it.
This Joe Achilles video might be interesting viewing for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptWA4A_53AU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptWA4A_53AU
james_gt3rs said:
Definitely the worst car I have ever driven.
If I'm honest I quite like it It seems to upset certain people if they get overtaken by something resembling a shoe, and you can hustle it through corners on a twisty road surprisingly well. The Roadster is a vastly better car though.Fun, Fun, Fun!
Just take your time getting used to it and getting a feel for how it behaves, and if you want to explore it's limits take a small step each time.
You don't want to lunge straight into oversteer on a damp roundabout in a modern car with 300bhp (which is what I did in 1976 with 60bhp and 155x13 tyres, but so comically slowly)!
What you won't get is torque steer and an inside front wheel scrabbling for grip in corners!
Hope you enjoy!
Just take your time getting used to it and getting a feel for how it behaves, and if you want to explore it's limits take a small step each time.
You don't want to lunge straight into oversteer on a damp roundabout in a modern car with 300bhp (which is what I did in 1976 with 60bhp and 155x13 tyres, but so comically slowly)!
What you won't get is torque steer and an inside front wheel scrabbling for grip in corners!
Hope you enjoy!
J4CKO said:
not sure how folk with V12 Jags and the like got on back in the day.
They had to drive carefully and smoothly, instead of relying on an electronic safety blanket.Interestingly, electronics don't always make us safer (e.g. people unconsciously drive closer to the car in front if their car has ABS, accounting for the failure of ABS to have any measurable effect on safety).
SVS said:
J4CKO said:
not sure how folk with V12 Jags and the like got on back in the day.
They had to drive carefully and smoothly, instead of relying on an electronic safety blanket.Interestingly, electronics don't always make us safer (e.g. people unconsciously drive closer to the car in front if their car has ABS, accounting for the failure of ABS to have any measurable effect on safety).
V8 FOU said:
CABC said:
if only someone made a rwd car on skinnier tyres with an LSD that felt anything but inert. shirley PH would fall in love...?
They would. But everyone who hadn't driven one would complain about the lack of power. No one on PH would buy one, well, only a few, but loads of other people would.J4CKO said:
not sure how folk with V12 Jags and the like got on back in the day.
Well with only three gears to pick from, a strong desire from the car to be in 3rd at all times, and an outright refusal to shift into 1st once moving the mid corner gear change wasn't an issue Joking aside you do have to be fairly circumspect with mid corner throttle changes as small throttle openings can unleash an absolute wall of instant torque response, however this responsiveness combined with what feels like a foot of pedal travel does make it easy to make fine and precise mid corner adjustments. If you drove a V12 Jaguar like your typical lead footed repmobile driver you'd be all over the road.
I can see how it would have been somewhat irresponsible to put anything with much more than 300bhp or so into the hands of large numbers "regular" drivers before the advent of traction and stability controls though.
I've had Mx5's for years, mk1s and mk2s. Last year I bought a mk3 and that handles a little differently to the earlier cars and being a 2.0 Sport comes with DSC.
I never had any issue with the handing but never pushed it very hard on the road. I then went to the PHSS at Silverstone earlier this year and did a wet track session. I left the DSC on as it was proper wet and the car was my daily.
What's the point of this waffle? Well, I quickly found that trying to drive it as fast as possible without the DSC triggering on track taught me so much about how to drive that car fast and smooth. By the end of those 20 mins I was flying along with the light not even blinking. My confidence in now driving that car was transformed.
Of course booking a trackday and hoping it rains is a bit hit and miss, but this is England so you might be lucky.
I never had any issue with the handing but never pushed it very hard on the road. I then went to the PHSS at Silverstone earlier this year and did a wet track session. I left the DSC on as it was proper wet and the car was my daily.
What's the point of this waffle? Well, I quickly found that trying to drive it as fast as possible without the DSC triggering on track taught me so much about how to drive that car fast and smooth. By the end of those 20 mins I was flying along with the light not even blinking. My confidence in now driving that car was transformed.
Of course booking a trackday and hoping it rains is a bit hit and miss, but this is England so you might be lucky.
I think they're quite a demanding little car (with the aids turned off, with them on its pretty secure). Very short wheel base, pretty wide track, high limits and bags of torque mean things can happen quickly.
RWD is terrific fun, but I always feel a fast RWD car tends to be a pretty serious / intense type of driving thrill. Needs lots of focus when pushing on. Fast FWD cars need most care on turn in and when easing out of the throttle (tightening corner), the issues you get on the power are not difficult to manage in the same way the back stepping out on turn in is. Fast RWD need attention on turn in and more on neutral throttle and then onto the accelerator towards exit. Generally they can change attitude more often and in more situations than FWD.
You can learn quite a bit with the aids left on, but you do get to a point where you are not certain if its the car or you making the correction. And then of course you have to possibility to get far more out of shape, very quickly, with the aids turned off.
All I'd say is take it very steady, try to build up your understanding of the cars behaviour gradually with the aids turned on.
RWD is terrific fun, but I always feel a fast RWD car tends to be a pretty serious / intense type of driving thrill. Needs lots of focus when pushing on. Fast FWD cars need most care on turn in and when easing out of the throttle (tightening corner), the issues you get on the power are not difficult to manage in the same way the back stepping out on turn in is. Fast RWD need attention on turn in and more on neutral throttle and then onto the accelerator towards exit. Generally they can change attitude more often and in more situations than FWD.
You can learn quite a bit with the aids left on, but you do get to a point where you are not certain if its the car or you making the correction. And then of course you have to possibility to get far more out of shape, very quickly, with the aids turned off.
All I'd say is take it very steady, try to build up your understanding of the cars behaviour gradually with the aids turned on.
I've driven some spiritedly RWD cars before, usually very controllable. I had a 5.0 Mustang and a MX5.
But at work I use the Ford F250 Superduty with the 6.7 Powerstoke diesel, RWD, no traction control, because its the manliest of the manly trucks! Over 400hp and 700 ft/lbs driving just the rear 2 wheels of a nose heavy pick up truck.
Without any load over the back axle, barely any throttle will break traction and light up the rear tires, it actually requires some finesse to get going!
Although when towing a trailer or a ton or two of crap in the bed, it pulls like a train, you just have to slow down to a crawl round any corners..
But at work I use the Ford F250 Superduty with the 6.7 Powerstoke diesel, RWD, no traction control, because its the manliest of the manly trucks! Over 400hp and 700 ft/lbs driving just the rear 2 wheels of a nose heavy pick up truck.
Without any load over the back axle, barely any throttle will break traction and light up the rear tires, it actually requires some finesse to get going!
Although when towing a trailer or a ton or two of crap in the bed, it pulls like a train, you just have to slow down to a crawl round any corners..
dme123 said:
J4CKO said:
not sure how folk with V12 Jags and the like got on back in the day.
Well with only three gears to pick from, a strong desire from the car to be in 3rd at all times, and an outright refusal to shift into 1st once moving the mid corner gear change wasn't an issue Joking aside you do have to be fairly circumspect with mid corner throttle changes as small throttle openings can unleash an absolute wall of instant torque response, however this responsiveness combined with what feels like a foot of pedal travel does make it easy to make fine and precise mid corner adjustments. If you drove a V12 Jaguar like your typical lead footed repmobile driver you'd be all over the road.
300 PS with 3 very long gears versus 340PS and 8 closely stacked gears, plus the M140i is a few hundred kg lighter.
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