At what point do people give up driving
Discussion
The Mad Monk said:
Bearing all this in mind, and particularly the mobility, reaction times and physical fitness etc of 18 to 24 year olds, why are the 18 to 24 yo's the group with the highest accident rate of all age groups?
SIgnificantly higher tolerance for risk (mainly in blokes owing to testosterone levels up to 10x that of an 80 year old man) combined with poorer judgement due to less experience. CooperS said:
Now this isn't being age'ist nor am I saying that if you are 80+ then why aren't you in Switzerland already but for the first time i worried about someone's driving so much so I warned a person parking next to the car from what can only be described as someone who shouldn't be driving.
The problem with a lot if not most people who are 80+ is that they either never took a test in the first place or may have passed in the army. My MiL took her test in an army ambulance in WW2, she said all she had to do was drive it down the road and that was it. She was always an atrocious driver and didn't lose her licence until my bro in law informed the DVLA that she'd passed out at the wheel and hit a bollard, her GP said he wasn't allowed to inform them (or more likely couldn't be bothered) even though he knew she had a history of blackouts, she'd never told us or we'd have done something sooner.imagineifyeswill said:
I have to say I do think there should be an age limit on driving and in my opinion definately no older than eighty. My wife and I have discussed this a few times and have both said we,ll stop driving at 70 years old, were both 58 now. My wife rarely drives now and I certainly drive much slower than I did in my younger days as I know my reaction times are far slower.
Stop driving at 70? Not me. I'm 67 and I'm currently having a car restored that may take two or three more years before it's back on the road. I fully intend to enjoy it, and my three other cars, for quite a few years before I hand in my driving gloves.
Enjoy your 70th birthday
chevy55 said:
The problem with a lot if not most people who are 80+ is that they either never took a test in the first place or may have passed in the army.
Perhaps mental arithmetic wasn't your strong point at school? Ah well, if you were older you would have learnt your times tables by rote.The driving test came into force in this country in 1934.
Anyone who learnt to drive in the army during World War Two would be now be at least 90 years old. I suggest to you that there aren't many 90+ year olds driving nowadays. Certainly not enough to have a significant effect on the accident statistics today.
Had a run in with someone clearly not fit to drive a few years back. They ran through a red at a merge, came down my right blind spot, I spotted her, hesitated in disbelieve (doh!), went to brake to let her merge in front of me but she looked over her shoulder, right at me and turned hard left across me for a side street, no indicator.
The Audi beside me only avoided the accident because I nerfed the little old ladies car into a nice 1/4 spin. Impressive deflection from a 10 mph impact. She mounted the kerb, no foot on the brake and barely got the car stopped narrowly avoiding the person standing at a cash machine. Whilst I was still sitting at the point of impact foot on brake and clutch, engine running.
Turns out... in short... she was 84, had tremors her hands jerked randomly, had bad eyesight (could't see to read or write her details), told me she shouldn't really be out at night on the roads.
Done deal, right? 100% her fault? Well I immediately bought dash cam! And don't let a witness away without trying to get their name and number for the insurance people. She lied completely. Said she was perfectly fit to drive, that her light was green and clearly I was going too fast to stop. She said it was daylight at 7pm at the start of November and dry when it was pouring it down all day. Completely bonkers. Council screwed me on subject access to the multiple CCTV camera. So my word against hers. 50/50.
Get a dash cam and assume everyone else on the road is either blind, an idiot or just out to kill you anyway. Pedestrians and cyclists are lemmings. They will try and chuck themselves under your car from every angle. Don't start me on cyclists and bikers that teleport! It's a bizarre world out there, assume nothing.
A green light means "Proceed if clear". I recommend checking the other route anyway. Not just once, here or there, but always check conflicting traffic, even if you have a green.
The Audi beside me only avoided the accident because I nerfed the little old ladies car into a nice 1/4 spin. Impressive deflection from a 10 mph impact. She mounted the kerb, no foot on the brake and barely got the car stopped narrowly avoiding the person standing at a cash machine. Whilst I was still sitting at the point of impact foot on brake and clutch, engine running.
Turns out... in short... she was 84, had tremors her hands jerked randomly, had bad eyesight (could't see to read or write her details), told me she shouldn't really be out at night on the roads.
Done deal, right? 100% her fault? Well I immediately bought dash cam! And don't let a witness away without trying to get their name and number for the insurance people. She lied completely. Said she was perfectly fit to drive, that her light was green and clearly I was going too fast to stop. She said it was daylight at 7pm at the start of November and dry when it was pouring it down all day. Completely bonkers. Council screwed me on subject access to the multiple CCTV camera. So my word against hers. 50/50.
Get a dash cam and assume everyone else on the road is either blind, an idiot or just out to kill you anyway. Pedestrians and cyclists are lemmings. They will try and chuck themselves under your car from every angle. Don't start me on cyclists and bikers that teleport! It's a bizarre world out there, assume nothing.
A green light means "Proceed if clear". I recommend checking the other route anyway. Not just once, here or there, but always check conflicting traffic, even if you have a green.
InitialDave said:
cbmotorsport said:
Although having said that, I doubt I'd pass the modern driving test and I'm 40.
I assume this is from the angle of it being hoop-jumping b
ks, and you would fail for stuff that isn't actually unsafe, rather than you declaring yourself to be rubbish?I think anyone who's been driving a while would need to keep a close eye on themselves to make sure they drove "to spec" in order to pass, which is why I'm always in two minds about it. I mean, any competent driver should be able to put themselves in that "test mode" and put up with it, but when the purpose is to assess if an existing, experienced driver is safe, I think you really have to disregard nonsense stuff and concentrate on that one question.
My mum drove for far too long. Impervious to suggestions that taxis might be the way forward she continued driving for several years longer than she should. Her 'and then the penny dropped' moment was a couple of years ago when she accepted lifts from two of her contemporaries in the same week.
"I was terrified," she reported. "They were all over the road! And then I realised that was how I must drive now. I'll do what you say and take taxis."
And she did. In addition, once she had given up driving and sold the car, she discovered numerous schemes to help old people get about. There are both voluntary (generous folk given their time) and local authority schemes.
She drove from the 1966 when she was 37 until 2015 when she was 86. I don't remember her ever having an accident. In her driving heyday she was a confident and fast driver. Her major failing was expecting too much of a car. I remember her drawing up to a junction in my dad's MGB GT, spotting a bus coming and quickly pulling out in front of it. When she discovered the car was labouring in the jaws of the fast approaching bus, it didn't occur to her she was in third and not first but she simply took to shouting, "Come on! Come on!" at the car. Ever after, particularly if my life is in danger and I can see a solution, I have been known to offer advice.
"I was terrified," she reported. "They were all over the road! And then I realised that was how I must drive now. I'll do what you say and take taxis."
And she did. In addition, once she had given up driving and sold the car, she discovered numerous schemes to help old people get about. There are both voluntary (generous folk given their time) and local authority schemes.
She drove from the 1966 when she was 37 until 2015 when she was 86. I don't remember her ever having an accident. In her driving heyday she was a confident and fast driver. Her major failing was expecting too much of a car. I remember her drawing up to a junction in my dad's MGB GT, spotting a bus coming and quickly pulling out in front of it. When she discovered the car was labouring in the jaws of the fast approaching bus, it didn't occur to her she was in third and not first but she simply took to shouting, "Come on! Come on!" at the car. Ever after, particularly if my life is in danger and I can see a solution, I have been known to offer advice.
condor said:
av185 said:
condor said:
Having bought a new car recently - I'm surprised how slow they are to accelerate. I realise it's to do with saving fuel - but sometimes you need a bit of go on a car.
Try a test drive next time. Dealers can be helpful.
The Mad Monk said:
Perhaps mental arithmetic wasn't your strong point at school? Ah well, if you were older you would have learnt your times tables by rote.
The driving test came into force in this country in 1934.
Anyone who learnt to drive in the army during World War Two would be now be at least 90 years old. I suggest to you that there aren't many 90+ year olds driving nowadays. Certainly not enough to have a significant effect on the accident statistics today.
The test they did back then was very different. There were a lot less cars on the road etc. etc.The driving test came into force in this country in 1934.
Anyone who learnt to drive in the army during World War Two would be now be at least 90 years old. I suggest to you that there aren't many 90+ year olds driving nowadays. Certainly not enough to have a significant effect on the accident statistics today.
The current approach of voluntary retirement from driving is the state stepping back and letting us plebs handle it. That's perfectly fine with me. However, it's not really working. There are seemingly too many determined old fools out there who point blank refuse to hand in the keys and give up when they probably should. I imagine it would be difficult after a live times driving to admit to yourself that you probably shouldn't drive anymore, even if you realise how bad you are getting.
Yet I don't think you can put an age on it. Can't say ban over 80s. There are plenty of 80+ individuals who are still perfectly capable.
Forced retests is an option, but it's also quite evasive for old people. Requiring facilities to retest the old folks, with a higher number of disability and mobility problems, etc. Then there is the stress placed on them. Some might actually be pretty good drivers, but crumble to a mess under exam pressures and give up. That would be sad. Especially as the car is often a life line that allows these folks to get anywhere beyond the shop at the end of the street.
A more personal approach might work. A bit like a carer who goes out and has a cup of tea, a chat and goes for a quiet drive with the older person and then advises them if they should or shouldn't continue and why. Serious medical or mental issues highlighted during observation could be reported to DVLA requiring a follow up medical of course, but the key difference is the person is not being tested, just accompanied and advised.
For any entrepreneurial driving instructors out there, you could of course offer this as a pay for service to the older generations concerned families.
Your welcome. Edited by venquessa on Sunday 28th May 08:51
Driving test centres must already be set up for disabled and mobility restricted access.
Can't see them being given any special dispensations.
Perhaps as you suggest, a full test isn't the right thing to do - but maybe the answer is to go back to a much simpler test.
The usual eye test- read a number plate, a drive down the road, and an emergency stop.
Can't see them being given any special dispensations.
Perhaps as you suggest, a full test isn't the right thing to do - but maybe the answer is to go back to a much simpler test.
The usual eye test- read a number plate, a drive down the road, and an emergency stop.
Who me said:
I have to say I do think there should be an age limit on driving and in my opinion definately no older than eighty. My wife and I have discussed this a few times and have both said we,ll stop driving at 70 years old, were both 58 now. My wife rarely drives now and I certainly drive much slower than I did in my younger days as I know my reaction times are far slower.
You writing about 58 as if it's 78. 58 is barely middle-aged these days.Who me said:
I have to say I do think there should be an age limit on driving and in my opinion definately no older than eighty. My wife and I have discussed this a few times and have both said we,ll stop driving at 70 years old, were both 58 now.
I'm 99.999% sure that you'll find you've changed your mind in 12 years' time! Tbh, there is no reason why a fit and healthy 70 year old should give up driving anyway. I walk a dog for an old boy who's about to turn 95. He only gave up driving at the beginning of this year when his GP wrote to the DVLA stating that he shouldn't be driving anymore. I suspect that he would have given up his licence of his own accord earlier, but his wife of 70 years was in a care home 2 miles away with dementia and understandably he wanted to visit her every day. The day after his licence was taken off him he bought himself one of those electric mobility things and made the trek there and back every day on that. Sadly his wife died last week so he now has no reason to leave the house.
I'd always been of the belief that there should be a mandatory age for surrendering your licence, but if I put myself in the old boy's shoes then I can fully understand why one would want to hold on to it. That said I remember almost being run off the road when I was 18 by a mad old bird. I later found out she was Lady Millicent Buller (local aristo family) and was 101! She died aged 103 and I believe still held a licence at the time.
I'd always been of the belief that there should be a mandatory age for surrendering your licence, but if I put myself in the old boy's shoes then I can fully understand why one would want to hold on to it. That said I remember almost being run off the road when I was 18 by a mad old bird. I later found out she was Lady Millicent Buller (local aristo family) and was 101! She died aged 103 and I believe still held a licence at the time.
I think the point is that to have a blanket upper age limit for driving is a very blunt weapon.
There are many people in their 80s who are still driving well, and some people in their 50s who should have stopped some time ago. Should we have a quick eyesight and reaction test after the age of 60 every, what, 5 years? If so, what about those people in their 50s with early onset dementia?
There are many people in their 80s who are still driving well, and some people in their 50s who should have stopped some time ago. Should we have a quick eyesight and reaction test after the age of 60 every, what, 5 years? If so, what about those people in their 50s with early onset dementia?
My Grandfather has macular degeneration and I was disturbed on returning to the UK to find he was still driving.
The first time I'd seen him in a while, I went to his house and saw him, 2ft from a 55" screen straining to watch snooker.
I asked him what he could see, did a few checks and he wasn't fit to boil his own kettle let alone get behind the wheel. It took a few weeks work to get him to pack it in. As I said to him hopefully his eyes might improve (I doubt they will) and he will be able to drive again. He's now saying he feels depressed and has no motivation to do anything.
.
Better that than he kills someone but I do feel for him. Guess I'll have to take his XJR off his hands and keep it in the family.
I think people over retirement age should be subject to further tests but then again I'd advocate 5 yearly tests for everyone to remove the hopeless from our roads.
The first time I'd seen him in a while, I went to his house and saw him, 2ft from a 55" screen straining to watch snooker.
I asked him what he could see, did a few checks and he wasn't fit to boil his own kettle let alone get behind the wheel. It took a few weeks work to get him to pack it in. As I said to him hopefully his eyes might improve (I doubt they will) and he will be able to drive again. He's now saying he feels depressed and has no motivation to do anything.
. Better that than he kills someone but I do feel for him. Guess I'll have to take his XJR off his hands and keep it in the family.
I think people over retirement age should be subject to further tests but then again I'd advocate 5 yearly tests for everyone to remove the hopeless from our roads.
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