Car driving cyclist

[J4CKO]

Rich_W said:

swisstoni said:

Fast becoming Pedal Heads.
Very dull.

I didn't realise it was a binary choice

I can list right now 5 cars (all fast!) Id buy if I won Millions of Pounds.
I can also list 3 bikes I'd buy as well.

One of those cars would be an RS6 or C63 Estate so I could take the bike

Indeed, you dont have to choose one or the other, and just endeavor to do both well and not annoy fellow road users.

Thing is though, more cyclists drive as well compared to the number of car drivers who also cycle, a lot of anti cyclist rhetoric compared to anti car, very few millitant anti car cyclists out there, most are in London as well with their Critical Mass bks.

[Blakewater]

Most people who overtake cyclists too closely or cut them up or otherwise endanger or inconvenience them don't do so because they actively hate cyclists and want to teach them a lesson in some way. They do it because they're not really aware of their actions and how they impact on other people.

Yesterday I was sitting in a cafe and a woman picked up a chair, swung it round, hit me hard on the leg with it and didn't even know she'd done so because she was wrapped up in her own little world. When I worked in a cafe I was once carrying a tray for someone and squeezing behind an old woman who leaned forwards, stuck her walking stick out behind her and hit me with it squarely in the nuts.

These people will be equally oblivious to what's around them when driving their cars. They'll hog the overtaking lane, drive too close to the car in front, exceed 30mph limits but drive too slowly in NSLs and when they approach cyclists just drive past barely noticing they're there. The drivers who overtake safely are often the ones who are more committed drivers, the ones others will see as maniacs because they drive faster and overtake other drivers. They look and plan ahead, see the cyclists sooner than most people do and know the principles of carrying out a safe overtake which they apply equally to cars doing 50mph, cyclists doing 15mph and horses and riders doing 5mph.

As we're told by BRAKE types that overtaking is only what dangerous drivers do and isn't for sensible, steady drivers, many people don't know how to overtake but still want to pass cyclists. This means they don't know how to go about it safely and just drive past the cyclists whenever and wherever they catch up with them. Look at how people behave behind tractors to see how hopeless they are at overtaking. They drive too close, block their views and miss countless overtaking opportunities. When they're behind cyclists they drive too close in the same way if they really can't squeeze past and any cyclist who doesn't take an assertive position allows them to simply squeeze by. They're not doing it out of aggression or impatience, they just don't know any better.

Of course, there are aggressive drivers who hate cyclists, seek to intimidate them and trot out all the usual stuff about how they should pay road tax if they want to use the roads and so on. These people will hate old drivers, learner drivers and everyone who they have to make allowances for the presence of on the road. They'll also be tts to their neighbours, tts to their work colleagues, tts to staff in shops, tts on the Internet and tts to everybody they encounter because they're just tts. It's not exclusive to their interactions with cyclists on the road.

The people who ride bicycles and wear cameras, identify as cyclists as their very being, claim to speak for all cyclists while being out looking for conflict and shouting at people and who label motorists as a different breed of people who are all swivel eyed lunatics hell bent on destroying the world, don't do the wider population of bicycle users any favours. They make everyone who's on a bit of a short fuse see all people riding bicycles as the enemy and every person avoiding potholes or legitimately trying to prevent a dodgy overtake as a point maker challenging them to take the bait and have a fight. There are people with a similar belligerent mentality who go out with dashcams, look at people like Angry Dashcam Man. The difference is they don't identify as motorists and set themselves against a particular different group of road users. A jacket with a point making message on it will make the short fused people more likely to go out of their way to be aggressive and threatening towards you and the numpties who probably aren't even seeing you will be even less likely to see what it says on the back of your jacket.

[Donbot]

Well said

[twoblacklines]

Rich_W said:

I didn't realise it was a binary choice

I can list right now 5 cars (all fast!) Id buy if I won Millions of Pounds.
I can also list 3 bikes I'd buy as well.

One of those cars would be an RS6 or C63 Estate so I could take the bike

What is the point in buying 5 fast cars if everywhere you go, the roads are dominated by cyclists?

[nickfrog]

twoblacklines said:

What is the point in buying 5 fast cars if everywhere you go, the roads are dominated by cyclists?

Whatever you do, don't go to Holland. You won't survive the experience !

The other bad news for you being that cycling is here to stay and is on the up. Which is great as it creates more space for cars.
Unless you'd prefer every cyclist to use a car with 4 empty seats instead ? (that wouldn't surprise me)

As cycling becomes even more accepted, more people will learn/accept to share the road (and the minority of angry cyclists may even calm down a bit!).

And you'll be in an even smaller minority.

[Mr Tidy]

Master Bean said:

Move to Majorca. Much nicer to cycle there.

Is that because the locals can't afford a car?

[Mr Tidy]

Chris944 said:

I'm a car driver and occasional cyclist. After being cut up by a car driver while cycling today I think I should wear a sign on my back saying "I'm a car driver too. Give me a break."

Any better ideas?

YES - STOP AT RED LIGHTS FFS!

THEY APPLY TO ALL ROAD USERS, NOT JUST CAR DRIVERS!

I need a sign saying I'm a cyclist too, have a bicycle and actually take notice of traffic signals (and don't suffer from paranoia).

[captain_cynic]

nickfrog said:

Whatever you do, don't go to Holland. You won't survive the experience !

I strongly suggest going to Holland... before commenting on Holland.

The Dutch have it right when it comes to cycling. They try to separate cars and bikes as much as possible. Foot paths for pedestrians, red cycle paths for cyclists and roads for cars.

It also helps that the majority of Dutch cyclists are not arrogant and self entitled. Yes I said it, the problem with British cyclists is that they are arrogant and self-entitled. They're too busy ensuring that their "rights" are being enforced they don't spare a single thought to the notion that they might not be doing right by others.

If cyclists want the UK's attitude towards cycling to change, it needs to start with the cyclists.

Also, the more people start cycling, the more pressure will be placed on police to enforce laws on cyclists, who at the moment get a free pass. This started happening in Australia, cyclists are furious because they get ticketed when they run red lights... like any other road user.

[Donbot]

captain_cynic said:

the problem with British cyclists is that they are arrogant and self-entitled.

Is that a view of actual people you know, or just stuff from the internet?

[J4CKO]

swerni said:

Donbot said:

captain_cynic said:

the problem with British cyclists is that they are arrogant and self-entitled.

Is that a view of actual people you know, or just stuff from the internet?

Any road user who feels another group is on the whole " arrogant and self-entitled" is the cause of the problem.
Regardless of their chosen method of transport.

Indeed,

That attitude I am seeing on Facebook with regards to other groups, I saw an article in the Telegraph about Pistonheads,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/11250691...



Apparently we are all Boorish Know all Bullies, Racist, Homophobic, Misogynistic etc etc, as a member of this particular group do you feel that describes you, because we are all apparently all the same on here....

[Mave]

swerni said:

Donbot said:

captain_cynic said:

the problem with British cyclists is that they are arrogant and self-entitled.

Is that a view of actual people you know, or just stuff from the internet?

Any road user who feels another group is on the whole " arrogant and self-entitled" is the cause of the problem.
Regardless of their chosen method of transport.

Yep

[nickfrog]

captain_cynic said:

nickfrog said:

Whatever you do, don't go to Holland. You won't survive the experience !

I strongly suggest going to Holland... before commenting on Holland.

The Dutch have it right when it comes to cycling.

I couldn't agree with you more based on my experience - and Holland would be a nightmare for our resident systemic anti-cycling friend. He wouldn't comprehend that sensible people can safely share the road.

captain_cynic said:

If cyclists want the UK's attitude towards cycling to change, it needs to start with the cyclists.

I disagree, it needs to change with all road users irrespective of vehicle. Don't forget that most cyclists are drivers. But not many drivers are cyclists.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 30th May 12:56

[Mike335i]

The problem as I see it is actually poorly designed roads. Why do they not put cycle lanes in throughout cities? We have part time cycle lanes and those that just stop at junctions when they are needed most.

Cyclists are great and should be encouraged, more cyclists means less cars on the road and so less congestion. Those of us who then can't commute by bike and need the car will certainly benefit from that!

[J4CKO]

Mave said:

swerni said:

Donbot said:

captain_cynic said:

the problem with British cyclists is that they are arrogant and self-entitled.

Is that a view of actual people you know, or just stuff from the internet?

Any road user who feels another group is on the whole " arrogant and self-entitled" is the cause of the problem.
Regardless of their chosen method of transport.

Yep

Why would it be that cyclists are all that way inclined ? is it something about swinging your leg over a bicycle that makes you like that or is it perhaps you get a bit touchy about getting splattered through inattentiveness, aggression and generally being treated like crap ?

Do drivers really get held up that much by cyclists ? red light jumping, cant get my head round that, its bloody daft but a lot of the bleating about VED, insurance etc etc is really just because drivers have to have those things and cant stand someone getting away with not needing to, it seems a bit like people moaning about tax avoiders and evaders, they arent really arsed apart from those folk have more money and they cant avoid it, it is generally jealousy of the money saved, not some innate sense of fair play with HMRC.

I see all the self entitled cyclists when riding in, was pissing down this morning, the entitlement was just flowing, using the car drivers roads, for free, god bless you sirs. Actually, I didnt ride in today, am in my car with its £500 plus VED.

I agree that cyclists can be knobs, the pack thing, running red lights, but getting in the way, generally I cant overtake a bike due to cars coming the other way, in the eight foot wide car, not the two foot wide bike.

[spookly]

I don't have any problem with cycling for transport, only with the big packs of leisure cyclists that clog up picturesque A and B roads and are nigh on impossible to overtake.

Also, just because someone cuts you up on your bike doesn't mean they did it because you're a cyclist, this happens all the time even if you're in a car. There is just a lot of very poor drivers out there with poor judgement, inability to judge space/distance/time, and a generally selfish attitude.

The one thing with the road design that I find unfathomable is where they put cycle stop lines ahead of the stop line for other vehicles at traffic lights. As if it's a good idea to get the slowest moving and most vulnerable to the front to hold everyone else up. If cyclists just queued with the rest of the traffic there'd be less of an issue. Assuming the cyclists stop for the red lights at all.

[Smitters]

As a cyclist, I always wondered if one of these flags would be a good idea, but with the addition of a sharp point to punish the driver who gets a little close, but I do have two concerns. Firstly, being powerfully built, my shoulders are wider than the safety flagpole and secondly, would attaching something so conspicuously hi-vis to my vehicle cause me to sleep with one eye open?

[phil4]

spookly said:

The one thing with the road design that I find unfathomable is where they put cycle stop lines ahead of the stop line for other vehicles at traffic lights. As if it's a good idea to get the slowest moving and most vulnerable to the front to hold everyone else up. If cyclists just queued with the rest of the traffic there'd be less of an issue. Assuming the cyclists stop for the red lights at all.

Apparently it's so the vulnerable cycles are at the front, visible to all, as opposed to tucked up to the left of a truck that can't see them.

As you've correctly identified however, it does mean that there's high likelihood you'll be going slow until you next have chance to overtake them. This can be a little irritating if you've just overtaken them a short while earlier, prior to arriving at the lights.

I've often thought it might not be a bad idea if there was a version of the motorbike CBT for cycle users, and that anyone over the age of ? who wanted to ride on the public road should do so (perhaps a requirement to sit the theory test too).... or thinking another way. To ride a moped up to 27mph, you need to be 16, have an L plate, have carried out a CBT and wear a crash helmet (or of course have a further license entitlement). Why not have similar requirements for bikes capable of similar if not greater speeds?

[mgv8]

caelite said:

So what you are saying is, regardless of the fact you have a vehicle capable of using the roads without causing obstruction, you chose the obstructing causing method instead?

I'd cut you up more if I am honest.

You mean the car?
I always see cars in a line not being able to overtake each other (often across three or more lanes) but not many bikes!

[twoblacklines]

swerni said:

Any road user who feels another group is on the whole " arrogant and self-entitled" is the cause of the problem.
Regardless of their chosen method of transport.

But cyclists say that of car drivers so that means they are the cause of the problem too.

[twoblacklines]

nickfrog said:

I disagree, it needs to change with all road users irrespective of vehicle. Don't forget that most cyclists are drivers. But not many drivers are cyclists.

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 30th May 12:56

Been to Amsterdam twice and Rotterdam. Had no issue, mainly because the cyclists STAY IN THEIR OWN fkING LANES and don't decide to ride 2 abreast on a road with an empty cycle lane next to the road.