Jaguar Land Rover

[Willy Nilly]

It seems that JLR can do no wrong when they design an SUV and people queue up in the streets to pay full list for them.

So why don't they put the same effort into their cars and start beating buyers away from the dealerships?

I appreciate that SUV's are the in thing and they make a decent margin on them thus they invest more, but their cars seem to be forgotten about. Or am I wrong?

Over to the panel.

[Johnnytheboy]

My father quoted me sales figures for the XE this am, which IIRC had gone up by ~ a 1/3 since last year.

[ian in lancs]

because the interior design is awful compared to the equiv Audi, Merc and BMW. Jag's look like mid 80s Rotel hifi - All shiny chrome, garish instruments and hard plastics

Edited by ian in lancs on Saturday 27th May 19:07

[RammyMP]

The reliability is ste. I can't believe so many people still buy them.

[wack]

RammyMP said:

The reliability is ste. I can't believe so many people still buy them.

er

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

Bottom 10 Worst
Position Make/Model
Reliability Rating
1 Nissan GT-R 626.00
2 Mercedes-Benz GL 533.00
3 Bentley Continental GT 502.00
4 Mercedes-Benz R-Class 490.00
5 Audi Q7 426.00
6 Mercedes-Benz M-Class 409.00
7 BMW M3 408.00
8 Skoda Superb 360.00
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 359.00
10 BMW 7 Series

[BlueHave]

I parked across from a F-Pace today in maroon with stupid black wheels which just looked nothing of the £40k it cost.

The constant watering down of the Range Rover brand is also a mistake in my opinion. The Range Rover was always the top end prestige motor of the Land Rover brand. Now you can buy some ugly Evoque for £30k in white with orange accent stitching.

Edited by BlueHave on Saturday 27th May 19:17

[ian in lancs]

wack said:

er

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

Bottom 10 Worst
Position Make/Model
Reliability Rating
1 Nissan GT-R 626.00
2 Mercedes-Benz GL 533.00
3 Bentley Continental GT 502.00
4 Mercedes-Benz R-Class 490.00
5 Audi Q7 426.00
6 Mercedes-Benz M-Class 409.00
7 BMW M3 408.00
8 Skoda Superb 360.00
9 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 359.00
10 BMW 7 Series

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/97
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search...

closer to poor than good

[so called]

I enjoy driving my Disco 4 far more than my CLS and find the interior a much more pleasant place to be.
Each to their own.
Shock, ex-British car manufacturer starts seeing success. Time to slag them off.

[Krikkit]

ian in lancs said:

closer to poor than good

No worse than the german equivalents then?

[Willy Nilly]

But the reliability of Land Rover does little to put people off so why does it matter with their cars?

Land Rover seem to have ever conceivable SUV sector covered, well, except proper work horses, yet Jaguar have a hand full of cars that sell in modest numbers. Where as the Germans have everything covered from dressed up Fabias to luxury salons that people are happy to pay a premium for.

[ian in lancs]

Krikkit said:

ian in lancs said:

closer to poor than good

No worse than the german equivalents then?

no idea! Didn't look. An earlier poster stated they're no in the bottom 10 in response to a charge of poor reliability. The same web-site. in the detail, indicates all is not well. That is all. On the other hand it is warranty direct so hardly a fair sample.

eta i get employee discount via my FIL who worked at Browns lane. I went to look at the F -type. The interior and primary controls are poor; american influenced. Not a nice place to be. Im sure dynamically a good car but pound for pound / price point germany does it all better. Cayman/M4 et al or F-type? No contest!

Edited by ian in lancs on Saturday 27th May 20:44

[wack]

BlueHave said:

I parked across from a F-Pace today in maroon with stupid black wheels which just looked nothing of the £40k it cost.

all of the prices are bumped up to make the leases look cheap, nobody ever paid 40k for one unless they were monumentally stupid, I'm stunned by how much the big manufacturers are charging for their cars, if dacia can build a sandero with magic windows and air conditioning for £7500 why can you spend double that on a corsa or fiesta or 3x that on something german

BlueHave said:

The constant watering down of the Range Rover brand is also a mistake in my opinion. The Range Rover was always the top end prestige motor of the Land Rover brand. Now you can buy some ugly Evoque for £30k in white with orange accent stitching.

Manufacturers are in business to make money, if that's what the customer wants that's what they make , or should I start typing out a list of no longer trading car manufacturers who didn't build what the customer wanted.

[sheepman]

another thread where anything and everything about JLR is bashed by the experts on here, Its a miracle they're in business at all if the opinions on here are anything to go by :roll eyes:

[Hungrymc]

I just don't think Jaguar understand the market they are targeting, Almost every move that Land Rover (inc Range Rover) have made in the last 15 years has really moved them on and increased sales, they understand customers in emerging / faster growing markets and have been pretty brave in design (you see evidence of this with the constant moaning that they've devalued the brand etc etc .... as they keep growing and appealing to more people).

Jaguar on the other hand seem to be stuck in limbo. They've never nailed the small saloon and the XE is OK but a bit dull. XF now 10 years old, it was good but staid when launched, it's just too old hat now. Even the F-type, despite being beautiful is a bit confused.

Maybe cars like the new I-pace will change it all.

[ian in lancs]

sheepman said:

another thread where anything and everything about JLR is bashed by the experts on here, Its a miracle they're in business at all if the opinions on here are anything to go by :roll eyes:

Yes, so successful that they've been through a handful of owners and off loaded each time.

[Pintofbest]

ian in lancs said:

sheepman said:

another thread where anything and everything about JLR is bashed by the experts on here, Its a miracle they're in business at all if the opinions on here are anything to go by :roll eyes:

Yes, so successful that they've been through a handful of owners and off loaded each time.

Do you really think that based on where the company is today and the amount they are investing (>£3bn and still delivering profits of c£2bn), the amount of new jobs and jobs in the secondary industries etc? Sheepman is right, anything JLR on here almost universally gets panned by a succcession of experts who clearly have senior jobs at other autos as they seem to know better than a company that has almost trebles sales in 4 years!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/386904/jaguar-...

An earlier poster also questioned in investment in the saloon sector - it is huge and great JLR keep investing in this core market, but the balance of sales globally is changing to more SUV's. This is probably bad new to people who have an odd (sometimes bordering unreasonable )hate of them but puts JLR in an amazing position.

And allowing things like a 600bhp XE and the other crazy stuff coming is surely a good thing.

[ian in lancs]

I was offered at job with Rover but turned it down for a defence company career. So, no, I don't work for a car company. However, I grew up in Solihull, a lot of friends went to various incarnation of Rover, my Father was an engineer at Land Rover and my Father in law finally worked in quality (sic) at Jaguar Browns Lane after starting a career with Morris at Longbridge. When Ford took over they were appalled at the JLR quality...

I had co Rovers / MGs for years with some exceptions they and their dealers were utter crap. Not one was fault free. When the supply dried up and I bought my own cars, I and countless others I work with, went German. They were simply a revelation and more than a generation better than anything the UK was producing.

Without the Defender and Range Rover JLR wouldn't exist today.

[craigjm]

Hungrymc said:

Jaguar on the other hand seem to be stuck in limbo. They've never nailed the small saloon and the XE is OK but a bit dull. XF now 10 years old, it was good but staid when launched, it's just too old hat now. Even the F-type, despite being beautiful is a bit confused.

Maybe cars like the new I-pace will change it all.

The XF is not ten years old. The original XF built on the S-type platform in a hurried manner with lots of compromises because of that sold very well and saved the company because it wasnwhat piqued Tata interest. The XF on sale now is a completely different and new car from the ground up and is 18 months old.

Land Rover are the lead brand in JLR selling many times the volume of Jaguar. Jaguar have always been pretty small but have been selling more and more cars since 2008 and in 2016 sold the most cars ever.

I think the problem with Jaguar is that lots of people expect it to be wood and leather smoking jacket type stuff but those days are gone. The profits are not in Europe or US anymore they are in China and India and they are now building for those markets.

Quality has never been a Jaguar strong point. I had a 2008 XF that was awful and put me off ever buying an XJ when they renewed that but it is getting better.

Where the company is now compared to where it was less than 10 years ago is amazing. I think the same with Volvo under Geely. However, there is work to do and after the nice interiors of the original XF and current XJ I think they have lost it a bit there. I would also agree the XE looks a bit dull and I have never understood the F-type because for me it falls between the boxtser Cayman market and the 911 market and therefore really competes with neither.

However. The company is in a much better place than it was in 67, 77, 87, 97 and 07 so don't bash where it is in 17 because things are looking bright for 27. If they don't make the kind of cars you like anymore.... tough go and stick your money elsewhere. Britain should be quite rightly proud of what JLR has achieved

[ian in lancs]

craigjm said:

Britain should be quite rightly proud of what JLR has achieved

with foreign money, from more successful foreign companies.

[Krikkit]

craigjm said:

I have never understood the F-type because for me it falls between the boxtser Cayman market and the 911 market and therefore really competes with neither.

I never really understood this - why shouldn't they position it there? The 911 is a titan in that market sector, and aspirational for a lot of people, but now are nearly 90-100k for even modestly optioned ones... Clearly there's room in the market as I see loads of F-types about (a lot more than 997.1/2 911s for example).

The only thing awkward about the F-type is for journos who struggle to pitch it against something from Stuttgart - it's too expensive to compare against a Cayster, too cheap for a 911.