Why does everything have to be 'sporty'?
Discussion
I have recently changed cars from a 3 series Msport to a jaguar xf sportbrake luxury
The jaguar rides massively better, on its 17inch rims with 55 profile tyres than the bmw did on 18s with 35 profiles but IMO despite is over assisted steering the jag handles and grips as well as the bmw except it leans a lot more. yes the Jag would look better on bigger rims but that would ruin the ride
The jaguar rides massively better, on its 17inch rims with 55 profile tyres than the bmw did on 18s with 35 profiles but IMO despite is over assisted steering the jag handles and grips as well as the bmw except it leans a lot more. yes the Jag would look better on bigger rims but that would ruin the ride
Riley Blue said:
Could it be because most cars are bought, or at least chosen, by men. There are often posts here, on PH, from men wanting advice on which car to pick for their wife or girlfriend but of course, the car has to be 'sporty' for when they drive it, never mind that this might be once in a blue moon.
Leave it to women, whose priorities, I suspect, are likely to be somewhat different, and all those stiffly sprung four-door compacts will disappear simply because they won't get chosen.
True, but if the woman's priorities include having a higher trim spec, they often come with larger than standard wheels as part of the package. It does seem like some manufacturers are catching on to the concept that not everybody wants bigger wheels.Leave it to women, whose priorities, I suspect, are likely to be somewhat different, and all those stiffly sprung four-door compacts will disappear simply because they won't get chosen.
I would like it if there were more emphasis on comfort/luxury trim levels, the higher spec audis tend to be s-line, same with merc now being amg-line, the old days of avant-garde spec are missed. BMW gave it a shot with their Luxury trim line but it doesn't seem to be popular at all in comparison to m-sport. once cars are a few years old i find that the luxury/SE type trims tend to age a bit better as m-sports tend to become highly aspirational cars for tattoed charvers.
280E said:
It's not just 'sporty' nowadays, but also 'aggressive'
Tyres with an 'aggressive tread pattern'...
I've even seen advertised (heaven forbid) 'aggressively-styled bumpers'
and we wonder why there's so much aggression on the roads.
I reckon the model names don't help either. If you're compensating by driving a truck called a WARRIOR or a BARBARIAN you're bound to have a few 'red mist' moments! Tyres with an 'aggressive tread pattern'...
I've even seen advertised (heaven forbid) 'aggressively-styled bumpers'
and we wonder why there's so much aggression on the roads.
NR91 said:
Why are we obsessed with handling and 'sportiness' in the UK?
Firstly, I love a fun, fast car as much as any PHer but I've been wondering for a while why we as a nation seem to greatly dislike the idea of a soft and comfortable car. This became apparent when looking for a soft-riding comfy small car for my fianceé.
Have you tried a Zetec-spec Fiesta? That was about right as a compromise in my opinion, a little bit firm around town, but fabulously right on the motorway.Firstly, I love a fun, fast car as much as any PHer but I've been wondering for a while why we as a nation seem to greatly dislike the idea of a soft and comfortable car. This became apparent when looking for a soft-riding comfy small car for my fianceé.
Totally agree though, I can't imagine anything worse than a slow car which is also uncomfortable! A friend has just bought himself an Audi A4 in "SE" spec with tiny wheels and it's still back-breakingly uncomfortable.
Frankthered said:
True, but if the woman's priorities include having a higher trim spec, they often come with larger than standard wheels as part of the package. It does seem like some manufacturers are catching on to the concept that not everybody wants bigger wheels.
True.Almost every mainstream car I can think of becomes progressively more 'sporty' if you have the cash to go for a higher spec.Randy Winkman said:
Cars with big wheels and sports seats look better. I don't think most owners actually want the cars to be sporty, just look sporty.
thispeople don't really want a sports car but they want their car to look and sound sporty.
This is why you see so many M-Sport BMW's or S-lIne Audi's. The majority of which have 4 cylinder diesel engines.
Look at the Ford EcoSport. What a s
t car that is.There is a car dealer near me that mentions 'sport' in almost every car they advertise.
Alloys are multi spoke alloy wheels.
The seats are sports seats.
A few buttons on the steering wheel = multi function sports steering wheel.
In the UK 'sports' sells cars. Who was it had the advert with the 'sporty front fog lamps'? Ford Ka or similar?
Just because a car has a sporty name and sporty styling doesn't mean it is hard riding.
I've got a stupidly named Audi Sportback Sport but it's easily the softest riding car I've ever owned.
I guess all manufacturers have to make a compromise between good ride quality and retaining safe handling when fully loaded and making an emergency manuevre.
I've got a stupidly named Audi Sportback Sport but it's easily the softest riding car I've ever owned.
I guess all manufacturers have to make a compromise between good ride quality and retaining safe handling when fully loaded and making an emergency manuevre.
It seems to be due to gullible buyers and successful salespeople!
You can still buy "standard" models but nobody seems to do so!
Nearly every BMW is an M-Sport, Audis are predominantly S-Line, Mercs nearly all AMG and now Ford seem to be getting on the same bandwagon - I fast-forwarded through a Mondeo advert last night that mentioned ST-Line!
But the most ridiculous one I have seen in the last week was a Mazda 5 Sport - WTF can ever be "sporty" about that? More like an Angry Dad car!
You can still buy "standard" models but nobody seems to do so!
Nearly every BMW is an M-Sport, Audis are predominantly S-Line, Mercs nearly all AMG and now Ford seem to be getting on the same bandwagon - I fast-forwarded through a Mondeo advert last night that mentioned ST-Line!
But the most ridiculous one I have seen in the last week was a Mazda 5 Sport - WTF can ever be "sporty" about that? More like an Angry Dad car!
When Jeremy Clarkson complains about cars being stiffly sprung and hurting his back but says they're good to drive for fun in an enthusiastic way, even people on here dismiss him as having turned into a silly old duffer who's not with it any more.
BMW have updated the 4 Series and when I asked said they're not doing a Luxury trim level. They don't seem to be bothering with it on the new 5 Series either.
BMW have updated the 4 Series and when I asked said they're not doing a Luxury trim level. They don't seem to be bothering with it on the new 5 Series either.
"Discovery Sport". I suspect the sport in question is crown green bowls.
It's the unncessarily big wheel sizes and thus low-profile tyres that largely bugger up the ride. And it's all about looks rather than function. Formula cars seem to run quite happily with small wheels and big sidewall tyres.
It's the unncessarily big wheel sizes and thus low-profile tyres that largely bugger up the ride. And it's all about looks rather than function. Formula cars seem to run quite happily with small wheels and big sidewall tyres.
LeoSayer said:
I guess all manufacturers have to make a compromise between good ride quality and retaining safe handling when fully loaded and making an emergency manuevre.
I don't think for a second that safety is a factor, if a well damped car with a set of chunky profile tyres on smaller wheels is going to compromise safety over big wheels and rubber band tyres then the issue is far more fundamental.It's all marketing. You never see the base spec used in advertising, it's always the bigger wheeled model with thinner tyres.
The fault lies with marketing and customers. We are in an era of bling and brash which is why cars such as the Bentagya exists. Bling and brash sells, especially glamming up basic cars. 10-15 years ago 320d's, C200d's and A4 TDI's were often standard entry level models and debadged to hide the lowly model numbers. Now they are all M-Tech/AMG-Line/S-Line. Why? Because customers want them.
It's the equivalent of prison trainers and tracksuits. 98% of wearers will never exercise but want the look.
Sports. The new Executive briefcase...
It's the equivalent of prison trainers and tracksuits. 98% of wearers will never exercise but want the look.
Sports. The new Executive briefcase...
You couldn't call my last car, an Alfa 156, anything but sporty yet it handled very well on 15" wheels, so why the fad for ever larger wheels? I can't see the wheels when I'm driving, so I'm not bothered provided the car is safe, so presumably someone in marketing thinks that they can charge a lot more for wheels that cost little more to produce, and then persusde the gullible that they are more desirable.
Funnily enough, back in the 90s one of my work buddies bought a Renault 19 16 valve which was one of the best hot hatches around at the time.
Another colleague, an older gent with whom I shared an office, also had a Renault 19, but a fairly basic 1.4 version. While the 16V was a much nicer colour - metallic grey as opposed to very basic white - and it was a 3 door, rather than 5 door, I could never get my head round why the 16V owner thought his car was gorgeous, but the 1.4 was ugly.
While I will admit that the 16V did look nicer, they were still basically the same car to me, but the massive (for the time) 17" wheels, a couple of badges and spoilers front and back made all the difference to the owner.
He used to crap himself when driving over potholes and cobbles though!!
Another colleague, an older gent with whom I shared an office, also had a Renault 19, but a fairly basic 1.4 version. While the 16V was a much nicer colour - metallic grey as opposed to very basic white - and it was a 3 door, rather than 5 door, I could never get my head round why the 16V owner thought his car was gorgeous, but the 1.4 was ugly.
While I will admit that the 16V did look nicer, they were still basically the same car to me, but the massive (for the time) 17" wheels, a couple of badges and spoilers front and back made all the difference to the owner.
He used to crap himself when driving over potholes and cobbles though!!
ukaskew said:
LeoSayer said:
I guess all manufacturers have to make a compromise between good ride quality and retaining safe handling when fully loaded and making an emergency manuevre.
I don't think for a second that safety is a factor, if a well damped car with a set of chunky profile tyres on smaller wheels is going to compromise safety over big wheels and rubber band tyres then the issue is far more fundamental.It's all marketing. You never see the base spec used in advertising, it's always the bigger wheeled model with thinner tyres.
My feeling is that over the past 30 years the average hatchback has got a stiffer ride primarily for safety reasons. The Elk test failure on the original A class is an extreme example of that.
To the OP, a VW Golf SE with Dynamic Chassis Control is meant to be one the best riding hatches available.
It's something weird in the English psyche ; UK is full of fast cars being driven slowly (but hey, it says sport on the back and I read Clarkson in the Sunday Times so , respect eh ?) and much of Europe is full of slow cars being driven quickly ; cars with soft springs , uncared for and rarely cleaned but which are punted along with real brio.
Jezzerh said:
280E said:
It's not just 'sporty' nowadays, but also 'aggressive'
Tyres with an 'aggressive tread pattern'...
I've even seen advertised (heaven forbid) 'aggressively-styled bumpers'
and we wonder why there's so much aggression on the roads.
I reckon the model names don't help either. If you're compensating by driving a truck called a WARRIOR or a BARBARIAN you're bound to have a few 'red mist' moments! Tyres with an 'aggressive tread pattern'...
I've even seen advertised (heaven forbid) 'aggressively-styled bumpers'
and we wonder why there's so much aggression on the roads.
Everyone - male and female - is encouraged to be 'alpha' these days (just see any thread about men and women when all of the amusing 'alpha'/'beta' twaddle gets broken out).
Everyone is meant to be successful, in it for themselves, self-serving and narcissistic - if someone is in trouble they are feckless/weak/didn't work hard enough, leave them out on the ice to die!
And so on
This is reflected in car culture, and this is how its manifesting itself.
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