Is it time to ban overtaking?
Discussion
With our UK roads getting busier all the time, it's time to start the process to ban overtaking.... and I mean on roads where there is only 1 lane in your direction. Multiple lane roads would not need the ban. Overtaking a non-motor vehicle (like a pedal cycle) would also be an exception to the ban.
Maybe four or five decades ago things were very different: there was much less traffic; there were far fewer fixed hazards (e.g. junctions, entrances etc); there were plenty of opportunities for a safe overtake; there was a wide difference in cars' power and capabilities, meaning that the less powerful cars took ages to get up to a decent speed; speed limits were generally higher, for longer stretches (and some will remember “no limit” A-roads, and later it was 70mph on A-roads, before it became 60).
Things have changed. There is much more traffic. There are frequent fixed hazards. Speed limits are lower, and even basic cars can now happily get up to a decent cruising speed near the limit (where safe). There are far fewer opportunities for safe overtakes, so few in fact that the benefit from executing the manoeuvre (or even allowing it) is minimal. Have you ever worked out how much time you save by doing 60mph instead of say 40mph? It's not a lot. Even if you manage to maintain a full 60 for 5 miles continuously, that's only two-and-a-half minutes off your journey. Doing 60 instead of 50 saves only 1 minute in 5 miles. And for these examples you would need to see a clear 500 yards ahead of you to start the overtake of the car doing 40 (see diagram) without compromising safety in the areas of the inter-car gap or speed limit, even in dry weather. If you're behind a car doing 50 then you need to see a clear 1200 yards ahead. By “clear” I mean no oncoming traffic, no junctions, no “SLOW” in the road, etc. That's almost impossible these days.
The latest IAM magazine has an article on overtaking, and cautions as follows:-
“It's often difficult to overtake without breaking the law.... Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it of any benefit? If the answer to any of those is 'no' then don't do it.... If you're in a 60mph speed limit, behind a car doing 55mph, how will you create a sufficient speed differential to overtake safely? But do you really need to? Is the risk worth it?”
It's obvious to most of us that many drivers do not possess the skills to conduct a safe overtake, yet they still try. I suggest it's not worth letting them try; and given those “safe/legal/benefit” considerations, it's not worth letting anyone try. If you find yourself closing up on a slower car, you need to ask why it's going slowly – there may be a valid reason for it, yet many drivers seem to just assume it's a slow-coach driver. Even if it is – what really is the problem in just staying behind it? You won't lose that much time – it may seem like you will, but try computing some figures. Have a bit more patience.
Well, there's the idea, and yes I'm expecting one or two dissenters, even on PH.
(!) But think of this: it will happen. Four or five decades ago it was unthinkable that we would have an “indoor-non-smoking” rule across the whole country; if the government had imposed it back then, it would have been ignored, and impossible to enforce. But opinion changed. It will change with “no-overtaking” too.
Maybe four or five decades ago things were very different: there was much less traffic; there were far fewer fixed hazards (e.g. junctions, entrances etc); there were plenty of opportunities for a safe overtake; there was a wide difference in cars' power and capabilities, meaning that the less powerful cars took ages to get up to a decent speed; speed limits were generally higher, for longer stretches (and some will remember “no limit” A-roads, and later it was 70mph on A-roads, before it became 60).
Things have changed. There is much more traffic. There are frequent fixed hazards. Speed limits are lower, and even basic cars can now happily get up to a decent cruising speed near the limit (where safe). There are far fewer opportunities for safe overtakes, so few in fact that the benefit from executing the manoeuvre (or even allowing it) is minimal. Have you ever worked out how much time you save by doing 60mph instead of say 40mph? It's not a lot. Even if you manage to maintain a full 60 for 5 miles continuously, that's only two-and-a-half minutes off your journey. Doing 60 instead of 50 saves only 1 minute in 5 miles. And for these examples you would need to see a clear 500 yards ahead of you to start the overtake of the car doing 40 (see diagram) without compromising safety in the areas of the inter-car gap or speed limit, even in dry weather. If you're behind a car doing 50 then you need to see a clear 1200 yards ahead. By “clear” I mean no oncoming traffic, no junctions, no “SLOW” in the road, etc. That's almost impossible these days.
The latest IAM magazine has an article on overtaking, and cautions as follows:-
“It's often difficult to overtake without breaking the law.... Is it safe? Is it legal? Is it of any benefit? If the answer to any of those is 'no' then don't do it.... If you're in a 60mph speed limit, behind a car doing 55mph, how will you create a sufficient speed differential to overtake safely? But do you really need to? Is the risk worth it?”
It's obvious to most of us that many drivers do not possess the skills to conduct a safe overtake, yet they still try. I suggest it's not worth letting them try; and given those “safe/legal/benefit” considerations, it's not worth letting anyone try. If you find yourself closing up on a slower car, you need to ask why it's going slowly – there may be a valid reason for it, yet many drivers seem to just assume it's a slow-coach driver. Even if it is – what really is the problem in just staying behind it? You won't lose that much time – it may seem like you will, but try computing some figures. Have a bit more patience.
Well, there's the idea, and yes I'm expecting one or two dissenters, even on PH.
(!) But think of this: it will happen. Four or five decades ago it was unthinkable that we would have an “indoor-non-smoking” rule across the whole country; if the government had imposed it back then, it would have been ignored, and impossible to enforce. But opinion changed. It will change with “no-overtaking” too.Not sure this is the forum for you!
I'm sick to death of people following sheep-like a car doing 40mph (or less) on NSL roads. I travel up to 40k business miles per year, with perhaps a third of them on A and B roads.
Using your calculations, on an average day, I could lose 40 minutes if I were to be stuck behind cars at 40mph when I could easily do 60.
The problem with overtaking is that other drivers actively obstruct it by following too closely to the car in front and getting shouty and sweary if you try to 'force' yourself into the queue.
I'm sick to death of people following sheep-like a car doing 40mph (or less) on NSL roads. I travel up to 40k business miles per year, with perhaps a third of them on A and B roads.
Using your calculations, on an average day, I could lose 40 minutes if I were to be stuck behind cars at 40mph when I could easily do 60.
The problem with overtaking is that other drivers actively obstruct it by following too closely to the car in front and getting shouty and sweary if you try to 'force' yourself into the queue.
Trabi601 said:
The problem with overtaking is that other drivers actively obstruct it by following too closely to the car in front and getting shouty and sweary if you try to 'force' yourself into the queue.
Both as bad as each other, folks in a camel train with no intention of overtaking who don't leave space for those who wish to overtake on the one hand, and on the other hand those who overtake without consideration of where they will return to the correct side of the road and thus have to force into a space that, for whatever reason, was never there.
k off with this sSome of us live in parts of the country where overtaking is perfectly safe and easy with light traffic. No I don't think we should ban overtaking otherwise I'll spend my life stuck behind 40mph trucks and 50mph vans.
I do think we stop people being offended when they are overtaken or driving 1 inch from the car in front to stop anyone overtaking them.
I do think we stop people being offended when they are overtaken or driving 1 inch from the car in front to stop anyone overtaking them.
poing said:
I do think we stop people being offended when they are overtaken or driving 1 inch from the car in front to stop anyone overtaking them.
this, stop the mentality of folk driving 2 inches from the car in front that they've neither the desire, the skill nor the performance to perform an overtake yet rage at somebody who can.
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