What makes VW's PD engine so good?
Discussion
Having covered just short of 200k miles & 14 years of age on a run over the weekend at a steady 70mph I still got 57mpg which I think is pretty impressive for an engine so old, although some say that is barely run in.
Curious to know from people's knowledge what made the VW PD engine so good & why didn't the 2.0ltr have the same reputation?
Curious to know from people's knowledge what made the VW PD engine so good & why didn't the 2.0ltr have the same reputation?
I'm not sure it was particularly exception for its era.
In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
I've had four years and 60k miles with a Mk4 PD130 and I do not have a bad word to say about either. The engine is great: I love the way it delivers its power and it is entirely dependable. Original clutch and turbo both working well at 94k miles. Blacksmoke 180bhp remap for 15k and its performance is now inbetween a new 320d and 330d. It does an actual 61mpg on a long run.
I don't think the 2.0's are a patch on the sweet PD130, although in later cars the engine is much more isolated so it's not such an issue.
I also think the Mk4 Golf/PD era cars were tougher than the later ones. VW and Audi at the time made a disproportionatly high investment in their cars to raise the company profile. I have a friend with a 2001 Octavia that just passed 200k and just keeps going with regular servicing.
I don't think the 2.0's are a patch on the sweet PD130, although in later cars the engine is much more isolated so it's not such an issue.
I also think the Mk4 Golf/PD era cars were tougher than the later ones. VW and Audi at the time made a disproportionatly high investment in their cars to raise the company profile. I have a friend with a 2001 Octavia that just passed 200k and just keeps going with regular servicing.
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 30th May 08:45
kambites said:
I'm not sure it was particularly exception for its era.
In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
Agreed - PSA's 2.0HDi unit falls into the same category imo, as does the Volvo Euro3 D5 and the Alfa 2.4JTD.In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
tejr said:
To be fair, when I think of PD , I think of injector problems ?
Well you're an idiot then 
The only "PD" engines with an issue were the "PPD170" not really a true PD in the term. The issues have all been sorted by means of free recall work.
PD engines have been used in the Mk4 and Mk5 engine and for the number produced are very reliable, not really any common issues (Mk4 PD150 had a batch of poor camshafts but not as bad as it sounds) and they're cheap to fix, easy to work on and can be tuned well for not much money.
They have excellent driving characteristics and very efficient.
I had a PD105 Mk5 and moved to a MK5 GTI and now a common rail Scirocco. The common rail is a "better" engine and from an electronic side there's so much more control in terms of what you can do but the PD has a certain character about it which is lacking. Also have a very distinct noise, so you can always recognise them
I'm 170,000 miles into a 130bhp Tdi Bora. Thing runs like a train, although it's got a slight coolant leak that's been brewing for 50,000 miles and there is a bit of rust on the sill starting to peak through.
I think the engine was the last of the "unrefined" diesels, designed in the days when if you bought a diesel you did it in the knowledge that it wasn't trying to be as refined as a petrol engine, but would last and use less fuel as they were largely borrowed in concept from van engines.
I think the engine was the last of the "unrefined" diesels, designed in the days when if you bought a diesel you did it in the knowledge that it wasn't trying to be as refined as a petrol engine, but would last and use less fuel as they were largely borrowed in concept from van engines.
They have just enough power and just enough refinement that you didn't need to be an utter miser to want one but just old enough to be overbuilt and not very complicated. Same can be said for it's contemporary; the 1st generation Volvo D5.
Emissions, refinement, and driveability are all miles worse than a current engine though!
Emissions, refinement, and driveability are all miles worse than a current engine though!
xjay1337 said:
tejr said:
To be fair, when I think of PD , I think of injector problems ?
Well you're an idiot then The only "PD" engines with an issue were the "PPD170" not really a true PD in the term. The issues have all been sorted by means of free recall work.
Riley Blue said:
xjay1337 said:
tejr said:
To be fair, when I think of PD , I think of injector problems ?
Well you're an idiot then The only "PD" engines with an issue were the "PPD170" not really a true PD in the term. The issues have all been sorted by means of free recall work.
kambites said:
I'm not sure it was particularly exception for its era.
In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
In some ways that was a golden age for diesel engines, at least as "work-horses"; turbocharging had become mainstream so they weren't the dog-slow things from a few years before but they had yet to be strangled by modern emissions regulations and since they were still viewed as something you bought purely to save money people didn't complain so much about things like their lack of refinement.
I believe the positives lie with the engine's relatively good reliability, generally speaking. There is/was a thread on here about the specific premature failures on the engine but it's known to be a very strong a robust lump on the whole, for a diesel that is, anyway. This, specifically, is for the 1.9 PD 130 engine found in the MK1 Fabia VRS and various other cars.
The other positives are just your general diesel pro's i.e. low-down torque, high MPG etc. They're also slightly less complex as they're an older units with not DPF's. That could be a hindrance with all the anti-diesel speculation at current and these older diesels will probably be the first to go. That's a conversation for a another thread though. If you're after a cheap diesel, these are probably the way to go.
The other positives are just your general diesel pro's i.e. low-down torque, high MPG etc. They're also slightly less complex as they're an older units with not DPF's. That could be a hindrance with all the anti-diesel speculation at current and these older diesels will probably be the first to go. That's a conversation for a another thread though. If you're after a cheap diesel, these are probably the way to go.
The only good things about the PD engines were the reliability and fuel economy. The diesel clatter was awful.
More modern diesels are generally more refined, but I still don't like the diesel clatter. Heard a 1 series pulling away in front of me earlier and it was obvious it was a diesel from 2 cars back.
More modern diesels are generally more refined, but I still don't like the diesel clatter. Heard a 1 series pulling away in front of me earlier and it was obvious it was a diesel from 2 cars back.
spookly said:
The only good things about the PD engines were the reliability and fuel economy. The diesel clatter was awful.
More modern diesels are generally more refined, but I still don't like the diesel clatter. Heard a 1 series pulling away in front of me earlier and it was obvious it was a diesel from 2 cars back.
I completely disagree. My PD130 is a sweet little diesel engine and does not clatter at all - in fact I think that's quite the signature of the PD engines. In comparison newer diesels with direct injection make a horrible harsh combustion noise but the cars themselves have a lot more sound deadening/less NVH so overall the engine operation is less perceptible in the cabin, and for me that is a downside - I like to hear what's going on under the bonnet.More modern diesels are generally more refined, but I still don't like the diesel clatter. Heard a 1 series pulling away in front of me earlier and it was obvious it was a diesel from 2 cars back.
I have the 1.9 PD130 & it still pulls like a train when giving it the beans & cruises with a good mpg on the motorway.
When I bought it I was told that the body work will give out before the engine & apart from replacing the boost pipes I haven't done anything to the engine except regular servicing every 10k, the body on the other hand has been a right chew on.
So is it the fact the engines are less stressed & generally less complicated that they run longer & still seem to have that bullet proof nature?
If so are future engines with tighter emissions unintentionally designed not to last & be as strong?
If this car was to go I'd honestly be happy going for another PD engine rather than something newer, unless it's an RS6 of course
When I bought it I was told that the body work will give out before the engine & apart from replacing the boost pipes I haven't done anything to the engine except regular servicing every 10k, the body on the other hand has been a right chew on.
So is it the fact the engines are less stressed & generally less complicated that they run longer & still seem to have that bullet proof nature?
If so are future engines with tighter emissions unintentionally designed not to last & be as strong?
If this car was to go I'd honestly be happy going for another PD engine rather than something newer, unless it's an RS6 of course
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