RE: BMW M5/M6 (E60/E63): PH Buying Guide
Discussion
I had one for 3 years – 2 years ago, 2005 car, 15k miles up to 60k. Amazing engine. Very reliable car, only think that broke down was oil cooler – replaced by extended warranty. Cheap to insure. Real head turner – had many positive comments, no one believed it is a 10+ years car. SMG was OK, not amazing, always used paddles, otherwise a bit crap in automatic. Fuel consumption – 12 mpg short runs, 17mpg medium, 22mp touring. 5mpg (calculated) Snetterton - I had to try full potential.
Sold only because I wanted to replace it with two cars – 7 seater (happened) + track car (not happened, house extension instead)
Sold only because I wanted to replace it with two cars – 7 seater (happened) + track car (not happened, house extension instead)
I'd love a M6 but I have a feeling that it would bankrupt me in fuel bills. The M6 is surprising lighter than you would expect such a large car to be, 1,710 kg vs. 1,685 kg for the E90 M3 due to the M6 having a large amount of carbon fibre and kevlar. The E60 M5 is 1,855 kg by comparision.
I've seen that people are working/have done SMG to DCT conversions, that or a ready supply of manual gearboxes would be very tempting.
I've seen that people are working/have done SMG to DCT conversions, that or a ready supply of manual gearboxes would be very tempting.
tankplanker said:
I've seen that people are working/have done SMG to DCT conversions, that or a ready supply of manual gearboxes would be very tempting.
You could have an awful lot of SMG repairs for the price of a DCT conversion. Moving it to a E9x 6 speed manual would be cheaper but still very pricey.matty13 said:
I don't know he 3/4 wrapped all 4 pipes in my with a allyminuim sheet tack down with welds and then refilled the back boxes with the fibre glass hair .
Is this what you had done ?
Maybe I need to stand out side of the car but to me it does not sound that loud on start up or under load . It's defo an improvement over stock tho
Mine was different, I had the 2 inside (larger) pipes fully wrapped so they are essentially straight pipes. Probably a bit louder than partially wrapping all 4 pipes but not sure...Is this what you had done ?
Maybe I need to stand out side of the car but to me it does not sound that loud on start up or under load . It's defo an improvement over stock tho
Mikeeb said:
You could have an awful lot of SMG repairs for the price of a DCT conversion. Moving it to a E9x 6 speed manual would be cheaper but still very pricey.
It would be more because I don't like the SMG. My pipe dream is to get a M6 in reasonable condition and treat it like a project car getting it perfect as I can for a road focused GT car. The MPG figures (even the better ones) in this thread put me off a bit from that though!MrTouring said:
I love mine - owned just over a year and has cost less than my previous 535d to run (problem wise, fuel economy not withstanding!) that's before you factor in it's still worth what I paid for it!
Steering is beautiful, engine is immense, balance is lovely and I've only seen one other in a year.
Feels incredibly special every time I get in it and start that V10 - has more toys and feels a lot more special than my uncles £110k X6M and sounds a lot better too!
Difficult to know what I'll ever chop it in for.......
Just wondering what you have had done to the suspension on your Touring? Has it been lowered/wheel spacers added? Looks great I must say.
I've owned mine now for over 4 years/20k+ miles and it's been pretty reliable in that time. The car is now approaching 70k miles. The clutch, flywheel and release bearing/guide bush were replaced at around 50k miles. The ABS pump went recently, but was covered by the BMW warranty and the throttle actuators went kaput prior to my ownership (again picked up by the warranty). The brakes need replacing, which I am going to DIY (managed to get front and rear brake discs, pads and sensors for under £800)
I'm not sure I'll ever sell it as, for me, it's such a multipurpose car which does lots of things so well (and really can't think what I'd replace it with, if I did, without spending a lot more money) although that front wheel arch gap has always bugged me!
ss1977 said:
Hi MrTouring,
Just wondering what you have had done to the suspension on your Touring? Has it been lowered/wheel spacers added? Looks great I must say.
I've owned mine now for over 4 years/20k+ miles and it's been pretty reliable in that time. The car is now approaching 70k miles. The clutch, flywheel and release bearing/guide bush were replaced at around 50k miles. The ABS pump went recently, but was covered by the BMW warranty and the throttle actuators went kaput prior to my ownership (again picked up by the warranty). The brakes need replacing, which I am going to DIY (managed to get front and rear brake discs, pads and sensors for under £800)
I'm not sure I'll ever sell it as, for me, it's such a multipurpose car which does lots of things so well (and really can't think what I'd replace it with, if I did, without spending a lot more money) although that front wheel arch gap has always bugged me!
Ha! The arch gap got to me too! Seemed the one flaw in a perfectly proportioned wagon! Just wondering what you have had done to the suspension on your Touring? Has it been lowered/wheel spacers added? Looks great I must say.
I've owned mine now for over 4 years/20k+ miles and it's been pretty reliable in that time. The car is now approaching 70k miles. The clutch, flywheel and release bearing/guide bush were replaced at around 50k miles. The ABS pump went recently, but was covered by the BMW warranty and the throttle actuators went kaput prior to my ownership (again picked up by the warranty). The brakes need replacing, which I am going to DIY (managed to get front and rear brake discs, pads and sensors for under £800)
I'm not sure I'll ever sell it as, for me, it's such a multipurpose car which does lots of things so well (and really can't think what I'd replace it with, if I did, without spending a lot more money) although that front wheel arch gap has always bugged me!
I've put 35mm h&r springs up front and haven't got round to lowering the rear yet (needs coding apparently) as half the time I'm not sure it even needs it.
M5 is 10mm lower than standard anyway so springs bring it down 25mm. From 95% angles it looks spot on.
I also run spacers front and rear - I think they're 13mm all round and they on their own improve the look/stance a lot.
I've had mine just over a year/10k miles and love it! I've had the shells done as a pro caution as I've just ticked over 100k but other than that bit of preventative maintenance it's been perfect.
As you say - it's hard to think of selling it!
Edit: just noticed your speedo is n the picture!!!,
Edited by MrTouring on Tuesday 6th June 18:41
Kenty said:
I used to own this M5, was a great car, originally bought new by Edgar Davids - Dutch footballer when he was at Tottenham. Had a bit of trouble with the vanos and it was repaired on warranty - about £3.5k worth of work. Tank of fuel only took me 250miles, that was a bit of a killer but the sound of that V10 was awesome!
Wow, i was owner number seven i think (in 2012),what owner number where you?When i bought it had been crashed in the front and whoever had done the repair had removed the production date stickers off the headlights - but it drove fine and the paint was nearly perfect.
I will never forget the sounds of it at full chat, going through the small service tunnell that leads into Heathrow terminal 1/2/3, it was epic!
We should have a widely recognised scale of how likely a given model will bankrupt you.
Where 1 is a basic 2002 Micra 1.2
Where 10 is a neglected 1970s Maserati
Would these be at around six or seven ? given they are getting quite old now ?
What are they like for diy intervention ? guessing not great on the big ticket items.
Where 1 is a basic 2002 Micra 1.2
Where 10 is a neglected 1970s Maserati
Would these be at around six or seven ? given they are getting quite old now ?
What are they like for diy intervention ? guessing not great on the big ticket items.
I owned 2 E60's over 4 years and 15k miles pa, so a total of 60k miles.
The first car I had was an early car, 55 plate in Silverstone II and not a single thing went wrong with it. The second car was a Black LCI model and the only thing that went wrong was the fuel gauge, which stopped working. This was fixed under warranty without question although it did take a few visits to sort it.
Having said that, I wouldn't contemplate a car that didn't have a BMW Warranty, the bork factor is high. The older they get ,with more owners, the likelihood of being looked after properly decreases and it is probably this that ends up causing no end of problems.
The other thought that I had is that smaller garages are unlikely to have the right tools for anything other than basic maintenance so you will be forced back in the more expensive networks for anything significant, which without said warranty could be eye watering.
I loved owning the cars, the V10 dominates everything, the SMG isn't anywhere near as bad as many keyboard warriors would have you believe, it was comfy when needed but turned into something pretty savage when you wanted that. Everybody should try one!
S
The first car I had was an early car, 55 plate in Silverstone II and not a single thing went wrong with it. The second car was a Black LCI model and the only thing that went wrong was the fuel gauge, which stopped working. This was fixed under warranty without question although it did take a few visits to sort it.
Having said that, I wouldn't contemplate a car that didn't have a BMW Warranty, the bork factor is high. The older they get ,with more owners, the likelihood of being looked after properly decreases and it is probably this that ends up causing no end of problems.
The other thought that I had is that smaller garages are unlikely to have the right tools for anything other than basic maintenance so you will be forced back in the more expensive networks for anything significant, which without said warranty could be eye watering.
I loved owning the cars, the V10 dominates everything, the SMG isn't anywhere near as bad as many keyboard warriors would have you believe, it was comfy when needed but turned into something pretty savage when you wanted that. Everybody should try one!
S
Mikeeb said:
PHMatt said:
A mate bought an E60 after I'd bought an E46 330CI
He paid almost £500 for a pair of front pads, not discs, just pads.
The immortal line was "you don't realise how expensive they are to run until you buy one"
My response?
"I did, that's why I didn't" (I was going to buy an E46 M3 but opted for the safe option)
Depends where you shop.....He paid almost £500 for a pair of front pads, not discs, just pads.
The immortal line was "you don't realise how expensive they are to run until you buy one"
My response?
"I did, that's why I didn't" (I was going to buy an E46 M3 but opted for the safe option)
Euro Car Parts - Front Pads
Pagid - £83.99
Brembo - 98.99
Textar - £132.99
EBC RedStuff, which is what I run on mine, £138.34 direct from EBC
What he spent was parts and fitting. At the stealer. He reckoned it was due to the warranty that he had to have it done there. Not sure he was correct but hey, not my money.
Mikeeb said:
PHMatt said:
A mate bought an E60 after I'd bought an E46 330CI
He paid almost £500 for a pair of front pads, not discs, just pads.
The immortal line was "you don't realise how expensive they are to run until you buy one"
My response?
"I did, that's why I didn't" (I was going to buy an E46 M3 but opted for the safe option)
Depends where you shop.....He paid almost £500 for a pair of front pads, not discs, just pads.
The immortal line was "you don't realise how expensive they are to run until you buy one"
My response?
"I did, that's why I didn't" (I was going to buy an E46 M3 but opted for the safe option)
Euro Car Parts - Front Pads
Pagid - £83.99
Brembo - 98.99
Textar - £132.99
EBC RedStuff, which is what I run on mine, £138.34 direct from EBC
What he spent was parts and fitting. At the stealer. He reckoned it was due to the warranty that he had to have it done there. Not sure he was correct but hey, not my money.
Have had two - a 2005 saloon and a 2007 Touring.
I owned the saloon for about a year, and the Touring for just under a year.
The Touring remains the only car in my history that I really regret selling - I had little choice, the mortgage company that I was trying to buy a house with refused to give me a mortgage unless I sold it, thinking I couldn't afford both (they were wrong) - and I had to take a bath on it.
The saloon plagued me with nearly endless problems, but nothing serious and everything was covered under the BMW AUC warranty that I had on it. The clutch went on it, taking the flywheel with it. That wasn't covered by warranty, but despite BMW quoting me £3K to replace it I ended up having it done for £1.8K (BMW were a bit sneaky and tried to charge me twice for "gearbox removal and refitting")
Reportedly, just a few weeks after I'd sold it (traded into a dealer, who then sold it on fairly quickly) the new owner lunched the engine and put in a £7K warranty claim.
The Touring, on the other hand, was faultless for the entire time I owned it. The only problem was the switch on the rear tailgate glass not working, but that was fixed by the supplying dealer before I picked it up. Everything else was fine (fuel economy notwithstanding) - I fitted an Eisenmann race exhaust to it which really made it come alive.
If I didn't live so far away from work I would have another in a heartbeat. Great car, just annoyingly thirsty.
I owned the saloon for about a year, and the Touring for just under a year.
The Touring remains the only car in my history that I really regret selling - I had little choice, the mortgage company that I was trying to buy a house with refused to give me a mortgage unless I sold it, thinking I couldn't afford both (they were wrong) - and I had to take a bath on it.
The saloon plagued me with nearly endless problems, but nothing serious and everything was covered under the BMW AUC warranty that I had on it. The clutch went on it, taking the flywheel with it. That wasn't covered by warranty, but despite BMW quoting me £3K to replace it I ended up having it done for £1.8K (BMW were a bit sneaky and tried to charge me twice for "gearbox removal and refitting")
Reportedly, just a few weeks after I'd sold it (traded into a dealer, who then sold it on fairly quickly) the new owner lunched the engine and put in a £7K warranty claim.
The Touring, on the other hand, was faultless for the entire time I owned it. The only problem was the switch on the rear tailgate glass not working, but that was fixed by the supplying dealer before I picked it up. Everything else was fine (fuel economy notwithstanding) - I fitted an Eisenmann race exhaust to it which really made it come alive.
If I didn't live so far away from work I would have another in a heartbeat. Great car, just annoyingly thirsty.
Oh yeah, and my "favourite" memory of ownership is probably picking up the saloon after the clutch had been replaced. It had been snowing heavily overnight, and the BMW dealership's car park was covered in snow apart from the "well used" areas near the entrance road.
Of course, my car was parked right down the bottom surrounded by the white stuff. That SMG-III box with no clutch pedal is not fun when you're trying to feather 500hp through the rear wheels.
I somehow managed to get out of there without hitting anything, but there were a couple of close calls and I genuinely thought at one point that I was going to have to go and get someone from inside to help push me in the right direction.
Of course, my car was parked right down the bottom surrounded by the white stuff. That SMG-III box with no clutch pedal is not fun when you're trying to feather 500hp through the rear wheels.
I somehow managed to get out of there without hitting anything, but there were a couple of close calls and I genuinely thought at one point that I was going to have to go and get someone from inside to help push me in the right direction.
WCZ said:
the fuel economy was insane on these, I used to go to London and back from Manchester and it required several fill ups and a couple of hundred pounds of fuel
When I bought my first I had to drive back home to Shrewsbury from Harrogate. Not a particularly long journey, but after 20 miles on the M1 I was convinced that I had a fuel leak.I got taken to the pub in a work colleagues M6 a few years back. Great engine, SMG gearbox seemed a bit 'meh'.
But the thing I remember most was the interior - it was lovely. Armchair seats = super comfortable, and the carbon fiber inserts looked brilliant.
I heard to sold it due to expense/reliability issues.
But the thing I remember most was the interior - it was lovely. Armchair seats = super comfortable, and the carbon fiber inserts looked brilliant.
I heard to sold it due to expense/reliability issues.
E61 M5 owner for the last 6 years and 40K miles. Epic car - from time to time I think of selling but a spirited drive on a flowing A road makes the thought go away almost as fast as the petrol in the tank. It's still under AUC warranty so has had the throttle actuators, vanos solenoids (twice) and DSC pump replaced. Warranty renewal hasn't really paid for itself but offers peace of mind if/when a big expense comes up.
Surprised no-one has yet flagged up the errors in the guide:
the US got a manual not because of SMG issues but because the enthusiasts and market research said people would buy them. And they did.
The gearbox is SMG III, not SMG II
a preventative big end bearing replacement does not require a re-ground crankshaft (an expensive engine out and rebuild proposition); that's the whole point of doing it preventatively rather than retrospectively
EDC is standard on the V10s, not an option
It's not the sunroof seals that leak and cause problems; they're not meant to be 100% watertight. The issue is the 4 sunroof drains clogging up from debris and then water getting where it shouldn't. Preventative maintenance of cleaning the sunroof drains and the front scuttle drains should be done once a year.
In the European cars the tyre pressure monitoring system doesn't have pressure sensors in the wheels but rather uses the ABS sensors to detect rotational speed differences. US cars do have the sensors.
thankfully there's no mention of the V10 being F1-derived - it has nothing in common with the BMW F1 engines of the era except for also being a V10
Surprised no-one has yet flagged up the errors in the guide:
the US got a manual not because of SMG issues but because the enthusiasts and market research said people would buy them. And they did.
The gearbox is SMG III, not SMG II
a preventative big end bearing replacement does not require a re-ground crankshaft (an expensive engine out and rebuild proposition); that's the whole point of doing it preventatively rather than retrospectively
EDC is standard on the V10s, not an option
It's not the sunroof seals that leak and cause problems; they're not meant to be 100% watertight. The issue is the 4 sunroof drains clogging up from debris and then water getting where it shouldn't. Preventative maintenance of cleaning the sunroof drains and the front scuttle drains should be done once a year.
In the European cars the tyre pressure monitoring system doesn't have pressure sensors in the wheels but rather uses the ABS sensors to detect rotational speed differences. US cars do have the sensors.
thankfully there's no mention of the V10 being F1-derived - it has nothing in common with the BMW F1 engines of the era except for also being a V10
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