RE: BMW M3 (E46): You Know You Want To
Discussion
Type R Tom said:
Leins said:
The last service bill on mine (albeit a CSL) was more than the purchase price of this
I have to ask, what did you have done?- InspII
- New Vanos (gears in old one were on way out)
- Bottom end refresh (oil pump, Conrod bolts, etc)
- Plus lots of other little things that all seem to cost £100 each
They can definitely be worked on more cheaply by refurbing parts or using non-OE, but they still have an ability to throw up big bills like any M-car
I've spent a fraction of that on the mechanical work on my R53 MINI, and TBH I actually find it more fun to drive. But then they're not really comparable cars, just that my use of them has been quite similar
Scottie - NW said:
culpz said:
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
This is one of those lines you see a lot on PH, and it's just wrong.When a car is a 40k new M3 then at the point in it's life cycle when it is worth that much you have to use dealers at dealer service rates and prices and end up paying high parts prices to keep the warranty and so on.
As cars get older, more and more non OE parts become available for them, especially the most common ones, to fix known issues. The cost of the parts themselves also tend to reduce over time, as more and more manufacturers make them and push the price lower.
Specialists are then able to take care of them at lower labour rates, and sometimes work out better ways to do the jobs more cost effectively, on some cars whereas a dealer may say that's an engine out job etc, specialists know ways to do it without.
So, although I accept the running costs for a 40k car at 10 years old may be higher than a 20k car at 10 years old, you should still be paying much less for service and parts on a 10 year old M3 than a nearly new one at dealer prices.
As far as i'm aware, the M tax you pay for parts and servicing hasn't gone down. Specialists may reduce the labour costs and may be able to work around certain fixes and make them a bit cheaper too, but it's still, generally, going to me more than your generic BMW model.
What you're saying could be interpreted, to some people, as a false hope.
2 GKC said:
Touch more than a service then....
But not unusual tbh. These cars are expensive to maintain and anything engine related costs a packet as for most parts you still have to go to BMW.If you could buy the car and live with any niggles then it would probably be fine as long as nothing goes wrong. Buy it as a fix 'er' upper and you'll quickly be spending over half it's value.
culpz said:
Yupp, definitely. Just running a non-M BMW can be expensive. Obviously, the price of parts are more than would be on something like a Ford but that's to be expected really.
I can, in no way, afford an M3. A 330ci has been considered multiple times but it's just keeping them in decent working condition.
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
I looked at E46 M3s and decided against at the moment. I went for a tidy 330Ci instead and after sorting out a few niggles it's been fine but I'm still not quite bonding with it the same way I did with my E36 328i. For now though, the 330Ci is a great daily and enough fun to chuck about a bit when the mood takes me but I've got my eye on something with a V8 later this year...I can, in no way, afford an M3. A 330ci has been considered multiple times but it's just keeping them in decent working condition.
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
culpz said:
Scottie - NW said:
culpz said:
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
This is one of those lines you see a lot on PH, and it's just wrong.When a car is a 40k new M3 then at the point in it's life cycle when it is worth that much you have to use dealers at dealer service rates and prices and end up paying high parts prices to keep the warranty and so on.
As cars get older, more and more non OE parts become available for them, especially the most common ones, to fix known issues. The cost of the parts themselves also tend to reduce over time, as more and more manufacturers make them and push the price lower.
Specialists are then able to take care of them at lower labour rates, and sometimes work out better ways to do the jobs more cost effectively, on some cars whereas a dealer may say that's an engine out job etc, specialists know ways to do it without.
So, although I accept the running costs for a 40k car at 10 years old may be higher than a 20k car at 10 years old, you should still be paying much less for service and parts on a 10 year old M3 than a nearly new one at dealer prices.
As far as i'm aware, the M tax you pay for parts and servicing hasn't gone down. Specialists may reduce the labour costs and may be able to work around certain fixes and make them a bit cheaper too, but it's still, generally, going to me more than your generic BMW model.
What you're saying could be interpreted, to some people, as a false hope.
BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*
BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*
The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.
I love mine, but yeah if you buy one, budget for shells and bolts!
Seriously, view them as a consumable. Also Mr Vanos can refurb Vanos for a lot cheaper than a new unit
Boot floor is a pretty easy fix. Craig at Dynotorque does them properly for a very good rate.
Here's my ruined one in the best colour
Seriously, view them as a consumable. Also Mr Vanos can refurb Vanos for a lot cheaper than a new unit
Boot floor is a pretty easy fix. Craig at Dynotorque does them properly for a very good rate.
Here's my ruined one in the best colour
SDB660 said:
Had one new. SMG gearbox broke and replaced thankfully within coverage of manufacturer warranty. £12K. Guessing there must be specialists around that could sort it much cheaper now?
Yes, I believe they can be sorted by a specialist for around £1.5k now. There are even repair kits available for around £500 I think.ETA: linky..
https://burkhart-engineering.com/epages/c2babc39-3...
Edited by Front bottom on Thursday 15th June 16:17
TheAngryDog said:
culpz said:
Scottie - NW said:
culpz said:
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
This is one of those lines you see a lot on PH, and it's just wrong.When a car is a 40k new M3 then at the point in it's life cycle when it is worth that much you have to use dealers at dealer service rates and prices and end up paying high parts prices to keep the warranty and so on.
As cars get older, more and more non OE parts become available for them, especially the most common ones, to fix known issues. The cost of the parts themselves also tend to reduce over time, as more and more manufacturers make them and push the price lower.
Specialists are then able to take care of them at lower labour rates, and sometimes work out better ways to do the jobs more cost effectively, on some cars whereas a dealer may say that's an engine out job etc, specialists know ways to do it without.
So, although I accept the running costs for a 40k car at 10 years old may be higher than a 20k car at 10 years old, you should still be paying much less for service and parts on a 10 year old M3 than a nearly new one at dealer prices.
As far as i'm aware, the M tax you pay for parts and servicing hasn't gone down. Specialists may reduce the labour costs and may be able to work around certain fixes and make them a bit cheaper too, but it's still, generally, going to me more than your generic BMW model.
What you're saying could be interpreted, to some people, as a false hope.
BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*
BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*
The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.
I run a few cars, one a BM and I get my parts from specialists and it costs no more to run a when new 40k BM than my others cars, a 20k when new Mazda etc.
MikeGoodwin said:
I wouldn't dare run an M car without warranty and the servicing costs would break me.
Mine is a second car bought on 126k miles over five years ago, now has 145k on it, so admittedly it hasn't had much heavy use in my ownership.It hasn't had any sort of warranty in my ownership and has never given me any nasty surprises tbh.
Always warm them up gently, keep the oil fresh and they will be fine. Yes, servicing is expensive I suppose, but they are lovely cars to own.
Edited by Front bottom on Thursday 15th June 16:27
I've just been looking at these on the classifieds, the £8995 manual cabriolet with 96k miles on it seems cheap, any obvious red flags?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
30k miles/3 year delay between services pretty strange?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
30k miles/3 year delay between services pretty strange?
I did consider an E46 M3 recently but decided against it as it wasn't for me - as standard it is more GT car. A bit too heavy, dull and muted for me. So I decided to keep my E36 328i.
However even my car is costing a fair bit - all of which and more I would need to do to a £10k+ M3 to keep me happy and for the use I would put it to:
- Full rust proof
- Bilstein B12 kit
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- Upgraded top mounts
- New steering arms and bushes all round
- Faster steering rack
That lot including fitting is probably £2.5k for my non M car.
Then you need to add brakes, maybe tyres and a geo, Vanos rebuild, diff rebuild. Then general servicing etc and it all adds up.
I expect to chuck £5k+ at my car but when done it will drive better than an M3 and more suited to the type of driver I am. If I went the M3 route, it would probably end up at £20k which for me is too much for me for this type of car.
However even my car is costing a fair bit - all of which and more I would need to do to a £10k+ M3 to keep me happy and for the use I would put it to:
- Full rust proof
- Bilstein B12 kit
- Vibratechnics engine mounts
- Upgraded top mounts
- New steering arms and bushes all round
- Faster steering rack
That lot including fitting is probably £2.5k for my non M car.
Then you need to add brakes, maybe tyres and a geo, Vanos rebuild, diff rebuild. Then general servicing etc and it all adds up.
I expect to chuck £5k+ at my car but when done it will drive better than an M3 and more suited to the type of driver I am. If I went the M3 route, it would probably end up at £20k which for me is too much for me for this type of car.
An ex of mine had one and still rate it as one of the most enjoyable cars I have driven. Fast enough to have fun but not too fast to be a licence loser before you do so. Handling far from the pinnacle but, again, predictable on the limit and beyond to be able to have fun sideways; it almost encouraged you to do so. Revvy engine albeit because itw as so peaky it was a bit of a git warming it up as low down the rev range it was almost like a tuned race car off cam and jerky as hell.
Gearbox wasn't that precise or great, but manual still worth having.
Overall I would say it was a relatively flawed car but one that every time you got behind the wheel you ended up grinning like an idiot. In short, I loved it.
Drove the V8 a few years back and thought it was very poor by contrast and far too grown up.
Gearbox wasn't that precise or great, but manual still worth having.
Overall I would say it was a relatively flawed car but one that every time you got behind the wheel you ended up grinning like an idiot. In short, I loved it.
Drove the V8 a few years back and thought it was very poor by contrast and far too grown up.
AllOurYesterdays said:
I've just been looking at these on the classifieds, the £8995 manual cabriolet with 96k miles on it seems cheap, any obvious red flags?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
30k miles/3 year delay between services pretty strange?
It should be 15k miles or 2 years, whicheber comes sooner - as with the rest of the petrol e46 range. I would walk away from that one.https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
30k miles/3 year delay between services pretty strange?
Edited by Front bottom on Thursday 15th June 16:36
Scottie - NW said:
TheAngryDog said:
culpz said:
Scottie - NW said:
culpz said:
At the end of the day, the M3 is a 40k car with running costs to match. Just because they can be had much cheaper than that now doesn't affect the maintenance and running costs.
This is one of those lines you see a lot on PH, and it's just wrong.When a car is a 40k new M3 then at the point in it's life cycle when it is worth that much you have to use dealers at dealer service rates and prices and end up paying high parts prices to keep the warranty and so on.
As cars get older, more and more non OE parts become available for them, especially the most common ones, to fix known issues. The cost of the parts themselves also tend to reduce over time, as more and more manufacturers make them and push the price lower.
Specialists are then able to take care of them at lower labour rates, and sometimes work out better ways to do the jobs more cost effectively, on some cars whereas a dealer may say that's an engine out job etc, specialists know ways to do it without.
So, although I accept the running costs for a 40k car at 10 years old may be higher than a 20k car at 10 years old, you should still be paying much less for service and parts on a 10 year old M3 than a nearly new one at dealer prices.
As far as i'm aware, the M tax you pay for parts and servicing hasn't gone down. Specialists may reduce the labour costs and may be able to work around certain fixes and make them a bit cheaper too, but it's still, generally, going to me more than your generic BMW model.
What you're saying could be interpreted, to some people, as a false hope.
BMW M3 (2001-2006)
Engine oil service
£169*
Inspection I
£669*
Inspection II
£899*
BMW M5 (1999-2003)
Engine oil service
£199*
Inspection I
£319*
Inspection II
£539*
The M3 costs more the inspection but less for the oil.
I run a few cars, one a BM and I get my parts from specialists and it costs no more to run a when new 40k BM than my others cars, a 20k when new Mazda etc.
Granted, some people have ran them and not had much go wrong and it's mainly just cost consumables and servicing. It's definitely not for the faint-hearted though.
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