RE: Ferrari 612 Scaglietti: PH Carpool
Discussion
thecook101 said:
Love the car Charly, but I beg to differ on the desirability of the two tone paint cars. To each their own I guess but mine is black and blue - good colours for a bruiser.. 
How is Eric Clapton's old car treating you? Such a great spec. Fantastic interior, glass roof, TDF/black two tone and non standard alloys. Vocht said:
I don't think 4,000 miles is that bad? Not everyone buys cars for big road trips. It's still a hundred miles every weekend for 2 years. More than respectable mileage and enjoyable enough to take it on a nice countryside jaunt to the pub and back.
Might want to check your maths there...New E63S is 100k plus fully optioned. 3 years and 30k miles Mercedes put a value of about 33k on it - about right given a 38-40k retail - so 60k depreciation. So assuming you bought a car like this used, will 30k/3 years cost you 60k in depreciation.
I appreciate its apples and oranges new vs used, but in the world of man math. 3 years of E class new vs 3 years of V12 Ferrari...
I appreciate its apples and oranges new vs used, but in the world of man math. 3 years of E class new vs 3 years of V12 Ferrari...
bloomen said:
Any four seat Ferrari is a fine way to set your money on fire depreciation wise. May as well have some fun with it. I could understand hiding away something mid engined but not this.
Few years ago I would have agreed with you, the market is so over inflated at the moment that anything with a prancing horse is being sold for some, frankly (imo) ridiculous prices, I remember 400/412 going for less than £10k - a quick look and in the classifieds http://m.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C874871 £75k!Aes87 said:
I thought about one of these quite carefully before turning around and buying an old Merc CL600 ('01 with the naturally aspirated engine). Maybe not the visual drama, or the race bred engine note, but that's not what it's bred to be and given the 50k saving, better mileage and the understated looks I feel like I can actually drive it and have no regrets - bargain priced 612 rival! Money no object I'd get a 612 One to One and then put a G Wagen bristling with armed mercenaries behind me for my personal protection as I went forth on a Grand Tour
To be fair, I see a CL600 regularly at the gym. I think it's a mid-2000 model. It interests me because of the 12 cylinder engine and because it's a little awkward looking. I mentioned it to my girlfriend. She didn't care.If I saw a Ferrari 12 cylinder at the gym regularly, I would have mentioned it to several of my friends.
My point is that they really aren't competitors. Mercedes tend to be expensive cars; Ferraris are events. The Mercedes that are events, aren't the S class, nor the CL class. Despite the price, I wouldn't include the SL class, either, unless it was an AMG. But, that's not even an event for most people. You need an SLS or AMG GT or McLaren to be a competitor to an F car, imo.
Hi guys
Thanks for reading the article and for all your comments.
The main argument seems to be around the perceived lack of use. To give perspective I use the car at weekends or whenever I'm able to. I run a chauffeuring business and therefore drive for a living, covering in excess of 30,000 miles per annum. The thought of driving long distances, even in the Ferrari does not sit well with me for obvious reasons. When I'm on holiday I'd like to relax!
I use the car regularly whenever I'm not working, it's a special thing that I savour and enjoy whenever I turn the key and I want the driving experience to always remain so.
I need to send apologies to the Sessanta owner, blue black great colour combo, I recall seeing this car for sale a few years ago.
When I drive the car I drive it hard, the car has far more talents than I but Ferrari's work better when they are hot! Finally, it anyone wants more information on 612 ownership PM me, more than happy to help.
Regards to all,
Charly Sparrow
Thanks for reading the article and for all your comments.
The main argument seems to be around the perceived lack of use. To give perspective I use the car at weekends or whenever I'm able to. I run a chauffeuring business and therefore drive for a living, covering in excess of 30,000 miles per annum. The thought of driving long distances, even in the Ferrari does not sit well with me for obvious reasons. When I'm on holiday I'd like to relax!
I use the car regularly whenever I'm not working, it's a special thing that I savour and enjoy whenever I turn the key and I want the driving experience to always remain so.
I need to send apologies to the Sessanta owner, blue black great colour combo, I recall seeing this car for sale a few years ago.
When I drive the car I drive it hard, the car has far more talents than I but Ferrari's work better when they are hot! Finally, it anyone wants more information on 612 ownership PM me, more than happy to help.
Regards to all,
Charly Sparrow
Brain fart! Nero77 said:
What a lovely car. And OP was doing so well...but like many above the mileage sensitivity comment left me partly disappointed but mostly sad. These cars are there to be used and to be enjoyed. If you can't do that, what's the point? Life is short and you can't take it with you. The irony of why the tyres had to be replaced is not lost...
I can say this having put 7000 miles on my 430 since I bought her in August. I've just come back from a 6 day road trip around Europe and 1400 miles.
And as a serial buyer I would rather have a well looked after higher mileage car than a garage queen. Like everything it's down to personal choice, but what a shame to have something so great and be frightened of using it. I'm also of the view that I am lucky enough to own a car like this, others should get to enjoy it as well. Take out whoever take it wherever and let others enjoy it as well. But that's just me.
Perfect attitude.I can say this having put 7000 miles on my 430 since I bought her in August. I've just come back from a 6 day road trip around Europe and 1400 miles.
And as a serial buyer I would rather have a well looked after higher mileage car than a garage queen. Like everything it's down to personal choice, but what a shame to have something so great and be frightened of using it. I'm also of the view that I am lucky enough to own a car like this, others should get to enjoy it as well. Take out whoever take it wherever and let others enjoy it as well. But that's just me.
Barchettaman said:
Sycamore said:
>Buys a fantastic car
>Writes on PH how it's a fantastic car
>Doesn't actually drive the fantastic car because it'll lose value.
>?????
Did you read his post? His reasoning seems pretty sound, although ruling out any alpine trip in the thing seems a shame.>Writes on PH how it's a fantastic car
>Doesn't actually drive the fantastic car because it'll lose value.
>?????
As others have suggested if you want to buy a Fez to use then buy one that's been used. If Alpine trips are a must then an earlier 612 with money spare for consumables, or stretching to an early higher mile FF would represent a better trade off between use and residual.
It's a shame the debate has overshadowed the more interesting story (to me) of the quantitative and qualitative differences between early 612, late 612 and early FF.
Just to add some figures in to this. c.50 weekends in a year (to be generous - 2016 had 53 Saturdays). 4,000 over 2 years = 40 miles per weekend.
Now, lets assume the OP only uses it for half the weekends in the year (the nicer ones). That's STILL only 80 miles a weekend over two years.
Now as much as I respect anyone's right to do with their property as they please, those on here who are saying, '4k over 2 years isn't bad'....erm...yeah it is. But it's not my car, it's not my money and ultimately so what? The next owner will get a car that they can put a few MORE miles on as the current owner has been kind enough to keep things nice and low.
To trot out the amusing old PH comparison...we all know that part of going out with a virgin is to ensure she is still a virgin for the next guy...
Now, lets assume the OP only uses it for half the weekends in the year (the nicer ones). That's STILL only 80 miles a weekend over two years.
Now as much as I respect anyone's right to do with their property as they please, those on here who are saying, '4k over 2 years isn't bad'....erm...yeah it is. But it's not my car, it's not my money and ultimately so what? The next owner will get a car that they can put a few MORE miles on as the current owner has been kind enough to keep things nice and low.
To trot out the amusing old PH comparison...we all know that part of going out with a virgin is to ensure she is still a virgin for the next guy...
Charlysparrow said:
Hi guys
Thanks for reading the article and for all your comments.
The main argument seems to be around the perceived lack of use. To give perspective I use the car at weekends or whenever I'm able to. I run a chauffeuring business and therefore drive for a living, covering in excess of 30,000 miles per annum. The thought of driving long distances, even in the Ferrari does not sit well with me for obvious reasons. When I'm on holiday I'd like to relax!
I use the car regularly whenever I'm not working, it's a special thing that I savour and enjoy whenever I turn the key and I want the driving experience to always remain so.
I need to send apologies to the Sessanta owner, blue black great colour combo, I recall seeing this car for sale a few years ago.
When I drive the car I drive it hard, the car has far more talents than I but Ferrari's work better when they are hot! Finally, it anyone wants more information on 612 ownership PM me, more than happy to help.
Regards to all,
Charly Sparrow
I was with the others to start. However, a bit of thinking and I get you completely. As a second car it isn't easy to rack up miles, and I speak from experience. For very different reasons I don't use my second car much.Thanks for reading the article and for all your comments.
The main argument seems to be around the perceived lack of use. To give perspective I use the car at weekends or whenever I'm able to. I run a chauffeuring business and therefore drive for a living, covering in excess of 30,000 miles per annum. The thought of driving long distances, even in the Ferrari does not sit well with me for obvious reasons. When I'm on holiday I'd like to relax!
I use the car regularly whenever I'm not working, it's a special thing that I savour and enjoy whenever I turn the key and I want the driving experience to always remain so.
I need to send apologies to the Sessanta owner, blue black great colour combo, I recall seeing this car for sale a few years ago.
When I drive the car I drive it hard, the car has far more talents than I but Ferrari's work better when they are hot! Finally, it anyone wants more information on 612 ownership PM me, more than happy to help.
Regards to all,
Charly Sparrow
By way of a comparison (and I use the word loosely given the differences in cars!) I have an old E36 328 convertible as a second car just for weekend fun. Yes, mine is weather dependent, but you could argue the same with a £100k+ Ferrari in that you might not want to use it in crap weather. I've probably done less than 5,000 miles in three years. Am I protecting residual values? (I'll leave that one there as a rhetorical question
) In reality the poster who got his maths a bit wrong with the 100 miles per weekend probably wasn't so far out with a dose of reality check thrown in. In any year in the UK there will be at least 20 weekends when you wouldn't likely consider taking your pride and joy out because weather is just crap or you perhaps have a life and are doing other things / on holiday. So that's 60 weekends left averaging 60/70 miles each weekend and given lots of us have nice cars but use them for the trips we take rather than take trips just to use them, that's not a disgraceful under-usage at all in my mind.
Hope you continue to enjoy it Charlie. Wish I was in your position to do the same.
A friend of mine just sold his Cayman GT4 for the exact same reason - thought it was not going to lose much money, Porsche dealer then told him how much less it would be worth with another 10,000 miles. They are turning into Ferraris and that is not a good thing.
There was an article in EVO not so long ago - apparently selling a 430 Scud with over 30,000 miles is near impossible, the difference in value between one with 10,000 miles and 30,000 is over £100k!
Of course the problem then being everyone wants to "protect their investment", so they don't put the miles on, so there aren't many "leggy" and usable examples. And it gets worse when people buy cars on finance - the whole thing is based around what they think the car will be worth when you're done with it, so you could be in a scenario where you have to pay someone £50k to take the car back.
I would always say I'm in the "Drive it damnit!" camp, but there are some seriously unpleasant financial consequences for doing that with some of these cars and even if you can afford to buy a £250k car cash, you still won't be keen on turning it into a £150k car in a couple of years!
There was an article in EVO not so long ago - apparently selling a 430 Scud with over 30,000 miles is near impossible, the difference in value between one with 10,000 miles and 30,000 is over £100k!
Of course the problem then being everyone wants to "protect their investment", so they don't put the miles on, so there aren't many "leggy" and usable examples. And it gets worse when people buy cars on finance - the whole thing is based around what they think the car will be worth when you're done with it, so you could be in a scenario where you have to pay someone £50k to take the car back.
I would always say I'm in the "Drive it damnit!" camp, but there are some seriously unpleasant financial consequences for doing that with some of these cars and even if you can afford to buy a £250k car cash, you still won't be keen on turning it into a £150k car in a couple of years!
For what it's worth here is another perspective. I bought my 612 a couple years ago. It's a relatively special car being a one-to-one ordered by Eric Clapton and finished by the factory to the Sessanta spec - although not a Sessanta. He said in an interview that it was one of his favourites and being a big Clapton fan I seized the opportunity when seeing it for sale. I'm very fortunate to be able to have the 612 as well as a 430 and a 911, so the 612 was never going to to have the miles piled on. I put about 8000 miles a year on the 911, 4000 on the 430 (a significant amount on track) and about 1500 on the 612. Yes, bugger-all, but it wasn't helped by having to put in in storage for the first 6 months of ownership. I really do plan on doing a big European trip - in between work, family and track days... My 430 is a different story and I use it as intended, although currently fitting bigger brakes - see pic, that's the 612 below it.
Purchasing the 612 also involved some man maths. Do I invest 100k in the stock market or do I put it in a car that I figured was at the bottom of the depreciation curve? Both could go t*ts-up but at least if I have the car then, well I have the car! I totally get Charly's situation. Buying the car was partly because I wanted and could afford it, but also because I figured that should the gods smile on me I might just get depreciation free motoring and an asset that I can enjoy. It is an asset though, money is tied up in it and it has (like so many cars) managed to appreciate over the last few years.
There is no avoiding that reality and to those bemoaning the low mileage, while you have a point, what would you do? To me the fact that Charly has taken 100k of his money and spent it on a chuffing Fezza rather than putting it in his pension should be noted. Of course he is a petrolhead, he took a massive gamble to get the opportunity to drive a big noisy magnificent Ferrai V12 around for a couple years - so far. Unless of course you're saying he should have said no, ignored the man-maths and drip-fed it into an ISA..?
Nice one Charly
Purchasing the 612 also involved some man maths. Do I invest 100k in the stock market or do I put it in a car that I figured was at the bottom of the depreciation curve? Both could go t*ts-up but at least if I have the car then, well I have the car! I totally get Charly's situation. Buying the car was partly because I wanted and could afford it, but also because I figured that should the gods smile on me I might just get depreciation free motoring and an asset that I can enjoy. It is an asset though, money is tied up in it and it has (like so many cars) managed to appreciate over the last few years.
There is no avoiding that reality and to those bemoaning the low mileage, while you have a point, what would you do? To me the fact that Charly has taken 100k of his money and spent it on a chuffing Fezza rather than putting it in his pension should be noted. Of course he is a petrolhead, he took a massive gamble to get the opportunity to drive a big noisy magnificent Ferrai V12 around for a couple years - so far. Unless of course you're saying he should have said no, ignored the man-maths and drip-fed it into an ISA..?
Nice one Charly
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