RE: Jonny Adam: PH Meets

RE: Jonny Adam: PH Meets

Author
Discussion

Manta A

24 posts

100 months

Thursday 22nd June 2017
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Thanks for the comments on the BoP rant. I understand the points being made but still can't live with the fact that over the years, lemans has seemingly changed from a test of man and machine, into a show.

If engineering is now irrelevant and all we now care about is close racing, then RC limiters would do a far better job. Everybody gets their money and nearly all the fans are happy.

jason61c

5,978 posts

173 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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Its a shame that the result is tainted by the BOP stuff. In no way at all would the aston have done well without it.

jason61c

5,978 posts

173 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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Ahonen said:
rolleyes You do know they've been balancing the GT cars to some extent for a good 10-12 years now, don't you? Does that fact retrospectively ruin your enjoyment of the last decade's races? I do hope so.

If you want the full BoP list use some initiative and find it. It's not that hard. Then you can amuse yourself by adjusting the lap times of every car based on the effects of weight, power, fuel allowance and fuel rig restrictors. Please let me know when you've finished as I'd love to know who, in your opinion, really won.

Very, very few forms of international (or National like the BTCC) motorsport these days don't have some sort of BoP. Even in MotoGP the Ducatis were allowed to carry a little extra fuel and use softer tyres to help them along a bit until fairly recently. I don't like it either, but regrettably it's the only way to maintain decent racing without the already obscene budgets spiralling out of control and leading to the majority of the GTE field withdrawing when they realise that they will never compete with a thinly disguised prototype like the Ford.

But as you think BoP creates a farce it looks like you're limited to watching F1 and club racing in future, doesn't it?
The fuel thing in MotoGP is about development freezes based on podiums/points, nothing at all like BOP.

JohnnyFive

86 posts

138 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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jason61c said:
Its a shame that the result is tainted by the BOP stuff. In no way at all would the aston have done well without it.
Bit of a moot point. Without BoP, GTE would not exist. Nobody would have won or lost.

RacerMike

4,192 posts

210 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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JohnnyFive said:
jason61c said:
Its a shame that the result is tainted by the BOP stuff. In no way at all would the aston have done well without it.
Bit of a moot point. Without BoP, GTE would not exist. Nobody would have won or lost.
I find it strange that everyone's getting their knickers in a twist about it! BoP was pretty much the foundation of all modern GT Racing!

The demise of manufacturers in the series in the late 90s and early 00s meant a new approach needed to be taken. The realisation was that none of the manufacturers wanted to compete in a series where there was no chance of them winning with one of their road based cars if it was already handicapped against some of the more purpose built machinery. The ultimate evolutions of these were the crazy prototype '911' and 'CLK' which were pretty much an LMP2 car. The introduction of BoP rules for GT1 8 or so years ago saw a huge influx of manufactured support and all of a sudden you had reconiseable things like the DBR9, C6 R, GTR, Murcielago etc. Unsurprisingly, the teams, drivers, manufacturers and fans absolutely loved racing them and the series grew up to become GT3, GTE and now GT4.

From basically complete destitution, GT racing is now one of the most exciting and competitive routes for most drivers into professional motorsport. So much so, that those running single seater championships have had to completely rethink their structure.

So basically, without BoP, you wouldn't have had any of the amazing last 7 years of GT cars, and I doubt very much, road cars like the Ford GT, Aston GT12 or GT8, Ferrari Scuderia, 911 GT3 RS or Mercedes GT-R would have ever even been considered.

Instead of complaining, learn a bit about how BoP works, realise that it's nothing more than a way of ensuring no one manufacturer runs away with a championship because they spent the most money, and be thankful it exists. We wouldn't be having this conversation if it didn't.

Ahonen

5,015 posts

278 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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RacerMike said:
The demise of manufacturers in the series in the late 90s and early 00s meant a new approach needed to be taken. The realisation was that none of the manufacturers wanted to compete in a series where there was no chance of them winning with one of their road based cars if it was already handicapped against some of the more purpose built machinery. The ultimate evolutions of these were the crazy prototype '911' and 'CLK' which were pretty much an LMP2 car.
Yep, the performance advantage of the Mercedes killed the booming FIA GT championship stone dead in two seasons. In 1998 it won every single race in the championship by miles. But Porsche won Le Mans because the Mercs' engines popped within about three hours of the start.

Ahonen

5,015 posts

278 months

Friday 23rd June 2017
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jason61c said:
The fuel thing in MotoGP is about development freezes based on podiums/points, nothing at all like BOP.
I only vaguely remembered something about the extra fuel, so apologies if I got it wrong. But it's still valid that they had some extra help in terms of the fuel allowance and tyre compounds which, based on what Mr Manta was saying, means that the results for Ducati, Suzuki and Aprillia were null and void because they weren't running to exactly the same rules as Honda and Yamaha.