Big diesel barge modifications. Remap plus DPF / EGR delete.
Discussion
And it's worth repeating again (and again and again), that there is no current evidence to show that diesel exhaust pollution is harmful,causing cancer, killing everyone to death, etc etc etc. Ad infinitum.
The report that people usually link was shown to have fatally flawed statistics, and repeat observations over a 10 year period have shown no conclusive evidence of cancer or early death from vehicle movement, leave alone diesel fumes.
(10 year period of observation of segregated classes of people living next to a busy (>10k cars per day) road. Suggestion in the report is dust from vehicle tyres is as likely to be causing problems as diesel engine fumes). But hey, let's not let the statistics get in the way of a good rant.
(And while we are on the subject of ranting, wouldn't it be easier and more effective to tackle the b
d bus fumes first. They are belching monsters compared to a normal car)
The report that people usually link was shown to have fatally flawed statistics, and repeat observations over a 10 year period have shown no conclusive evidence of cancer or early death from vehicle movement, leave alone diesel fumes.
(10 year period of observation of segregated classes of people living next to a busy (>10k cars per day) road. Suggestion in the report is dust from vehicle tyres is as likely to be causing problems as diesel engine fumes). But hey, let's not let the statistics get in the way of a good rant.
(And while we are on the subject of ranting, wouldn't it be easier and more effective to tackle the b
d bus fumes first. They are belching monsters compared to a normal car) 
Welshbeef you're probably a luvverly feller, but get yerself a nice unmodified Hyundai I10 and remember to leave your cocoa powder and slippers just inside the front door, dear chap. Seriously though, i have spoken to the owner of a Peugeot 407 today with the same engine and he has had the very same 3 mods done. He finds the car much livelier at any rpm especially at higher rpm, it is doing more mpg and there is very slightly more smoke but the difference is barely anything. Turbo lag is also reduced which is very useful. 208 bhp to 246 bhp is useful if not record-breaking. Just right i would say.
Edited by Grindle on Sunday 25th June 07:41
bearman68 said:
And it's worth repeating again (and again and again), that there is no current evidence to show that diesel exhaust pollution is harmful,causing cancer, killing everyone to death, etc etc etc. Ad infinitum.
The report that people usually link was shown to have fatally flawed statistics, and repeat observations over a 10 year period have shown no conclusive evidence of cancer or early death from vehicle movement, leave alone diesel fumes.
(10 year period of observation of segregated classes of people living next to a busy (>10k cars per day) road. Suggestion in the report is dust from vehicle tyres is as likely to be causing problems as diesel engine fumes). But hey, let's not let the statistics get in the way of a good rant.
(And while we are on the subject of ranting, wouldn't it be easier and more effective to tackle the bd bus fumes first. They are belching monsters compared to a normal car)
Well said. There was an article in a broadsheet not so long ago that said speed humps and traffic lights not being tripped at many locations together increase pollution on our roads by around 12%. That to me would be an area to look at first. The report that people usually link was shown to have fatally flawed statistics, and repeat observations over a 10 year period have shown no conclusive evidence of cancer or early death from vehicle movement, leave alone diesel fumes.
(10 year period of observation of segregated classes of people living next to a busy (>10k cars per day) road. Suggestion in the report is dust from vehicle tyres is as likely to be causing problems as diesel engine fumes). But hey, let's not let the statistics get in the way of a good rant.
(And while we are on the subject of ranting, wouldn't it be easier and more effective to tackle the b
d bus fumes first. They are belching monsters compared to a normal car) bearman68 said:
And it's worth repeating again (and again and again), that there is no current evidence to show that diesel exhaust pollution is harmful,causing cancer, killing everyone to death, etc etc etc. Ad infinitum.
If that is correct, a great many scientists in countries worldwide have either contributed to or been taken in by the evidence.http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2012/06/14...
Grindle said:
Welshbeef you're probably a luvverly feller, but get yerself a nice unmodified Hyundai I10 and remember to leave your cocoa powder and slippers just inside the front door, dear chap. Seriously though, i have spoken to the owner of a Peugeot 407 today with the same engine and he has had the very same 3 mods done. He finds the car much livelier at any rpm especially at higher rpm, it is doing more mpg and there is very slightly more smoke but the difference is barely anything. Turbo lag is also reduced which is very useful. 208 bhp to 246 bhp is useful if not record-breaking. just right i would say.
The beauty of a remap on a diesel is that it smooths out the power delivery making the car much nicer to drive, as you say you then get more mpg because you're not using as much throttle to get the car moving and to keep it at cruising speed. The power increase is a nice bonus I find.
njw1 said:
The beauty of a remap on a diesel is that it smooths out the power delivery making the car much nicer to drive, as you say you then get more mpg because you're not using as much throttle to get the car moving and to keep it at cruising speed. The power increase is a nice bonus I find.
Regretably I now own a petrol 4x4, needs the tits revved off of it.
shake n bake said:
Well this is a depressing thread, o.p do it and enjoy it, everyone else moaning, post a picture of your e.v or Prius to show how you're helping the environment.
Hilariously, I do drive an EV, and I don't give a monkey's kidney about the OP removing his DPF and/or EGR.
daemon said:
Then you have other issues happening there that the DPF was merely disguising. Worn injectors / overfuelling spring to mind.
Are you sure? My E46 320td with no DPF (Euro 3?) belched smoke out when I was in a hurry, which was most of the time! Whereas my 123d with a DPF (Euro 4?) never did that even in full grunt mode!But I'm sure neither did much for the environment - so now it's N/A straight 6 petrol for me!
I think the odd thing is that on a forum like PH where 'speed matters' has always been the message from the site owners, we now see so many people throwing the toys when someone wants to make their car more powerful or even more efficient. I read on several threads last week people wanting to improve the power of their cars and people told them ''to just get a faster car''. That seems a common reply. But it's the most stupid comment you can make. My brother has a BMW M4 which he got at a very good price as it's cosmetically imperfect. He is looking at the tuning options and he was told to get a faster car instead also. So with the 3 or so thousand pounds he has to spend what could he get, buying and selling in the same low mileage (23,000) condition, that's faster but will also take the kids on holiday and happily do the weekly shop? What's going to be faster but still fit in his garage and be quite cheap to run? All the re-mapping and other types of tuning companies would be out of business overnight if everyone simply got a faster car instead of a £350 remap, or sports exhaust or whatever. Modifying cars is part of the fun, surely? Or has everyone taken a sensible (boring) pill? Welshbeef, try living a little, you may like it. :-)
bearman68 said:
And it's worth repeating again (and again and again), that there is no current evidence to show that diesel exhaust pollution is harmful,causing cancer,
very wrong i am afraid, and i will stick to scientific journals for sources.'International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) – part of the World Health Organisation – announced that it had reclassified diesel exhaust as a ‘definite carcinogen’ – putting it in its highest category (Category 1).'
'When diesel burns inside an engine it releases two potentially cancer-causing things: microscopic soot particles, and chemicals called ‘polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons’, or PAHs. According to Phillips, there are three possible ways these can cause cancer:
“Firstly, inhaled PAHs could directly damage the DNA in the cells of our lungs – leading to cancer.
“Secondly, the soot particles can get lodged deep inside the lungs, causing long-term inflammation, and thirdly this can increase the rate at which cells divide. So if any nearby lung cells pick up random mutations, this inflammation could, theoretically, make them more likely to grow and spread.
“Diesel exhaust may be carcinogenic by a combination of these effects – we know the particles are coated with the PAHs, delivering them deep into the lungs where they get stuck and, potentially, cause damage. I should stress, though, that we don’t know for certain which of these mechanisms is most important in practice.”'
'But the real game-changers, according to Phillips, were two papers published earlier this year in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. These looked at exposure levels and cancer rates in a population of over 12,000 miners at eight non-metal mines in the US, and found substantially higher lung cancer rates amongst those with the highest exposure.'
“Petrol exhaust contains similar chemicals to diesel, but petrol engines emit much lower amounts of fine particles,” says Phillips, “so it’s much less able to get stuck in the lungs in the same way as diesel exhaust.”
Again i don't understand the morality of removing a dpf, when the information is out there.
yes the naysayers will shout no it doesn't, the problem with cancer it can take years to develop, but the warning signs are there.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 25th June 09:21
The Spruce goose said:
Again i don't understand the morality of removing a dpf, when the information is out there.
yes the naysayers will shout no it doesn't, the problem with cancer it can take years to develop, but the warning signs are there.
So, presumably, your against all modifications of cars that would mean burning even more fossil fuel and releasing even more pollutants in to the air?yes the naysayers will shout no it doesn't, the problem with cancer it can take years to develop, but the warning signs are there.
daemon said:
So, presumably, your against all modifications of cars that would mean burning even more fossil fuel and releasing even more pollutants in to the air?
the issue which you seem to be confusing is the removal of the dpf, which significantly reduces soot particles. 85% of particles is the figure,, and as per my link to the scientific study, is the potential precursor to a few cancers caused by the diesel soot. the op posted about the modification, i don't agree with dpf removal, as i think with the available information there are moralities issues to its removal, like i said you can remap the car with it in place so other modification are not the issue here.i'm not pious i had a dpf removed on a past car but when the evidence came out i re-assessed my values and decided it wasn't something i wanted to be part off. yes news changes, maybe next month petrol is the killer, maybe c02 will be back on the scene again, but i just made the decision myself.
Change only happens when people decide to make it themselves not wait for others.
Another point i informed my insurance that i had a remap, i guess all the people that have removed dpfs have informed there insurance companies, as if they didn't it would invalidate there insurance, not i risk i would want to take really.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 25th June 11:26
The Spruce goose said:
very wrong i am afraid, and i will stick to scientific journals for sources.
'International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) – part of the World Health Organisation – announced that it had reclassified diesel exhaust as a ‘definite carcinogen’ – putting it in its highest category (Category 1).'
'When diesel burns inside an engine it releases two potentially cancer-causing things: microscopic soot particles, and chemicals called ‘polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons’, or PAHs. According to Phillips, there are three possible ways these can cause cancer:
“Firstly, inhaled PAHs could directly damage the DNA in the cells of our lungs – leading to cancer.
“Secondly, the soot particles can get lodged deep inside the lungs, causing long-term inflammation, and thirdly this can increase the rate at which cells divide. So if any nearby lung cells pick up random mutations, this inflammation could, theoretically, make them more likely to grow and spread.
“Diesel exhaust may be carcinogenic by a combination of these effects – we know the particles are coated with the PAHs, delivering them deep into the lungs where they get stuck and, potentially, cause damage. I should stress, though, that we don’t know for certain which of these mechanisms is most important in practice.”'
'But the real game-changers, according to Phillips, were two papers published earlier this year in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. These looked at exposure levels and cancer rates in a population of over 12,000 miners at eight non-metal mines in the US, and found substantially higher lung cancer rates amongst those with the highest exposure.'
“Petrol exhaust contains similar chemicals to diesel, but petrol engines emit much lower amounts of fine particles,” says Phillips, “so it’s much less able to get stuck in the lungs in the same way as diesel exhaust.”
Again i don't understand the morality of removing a dpf, when the information is out there.
yes the naysayers will shout no it doesn't, the problem with cancer it can take years to develop, but the warning signs are there.
And yet London, which has had filthy buses since the 50s has a lower rate of lung cancer and COPD than pretty much every other region in the U.K.....Asthma too....'International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) – part of the World Health Organisation – announced that it had reclassified diesel exhaust as a ‘definite carcinogen’ – putting it in its highest category (Category 1).'
'When diesel burns inside an engine it releases two potentially cancer-causing things: microscopic soot particles, and chemicals called ‘polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons’, or PAHs. According to Phillips, there are three possible ways these can cause cancer:
“Firstly, inhaled PAHs could directly damage the DNA in the cells of our lungs – leading to cancer.
“Secondly, the soot particles can get lodged deep inside the lungs, causing long-term inflammation, and thirdly this can increase the rate at which cells divide. So if any nearby lung cells pick up random mutations, this inflammation could, theoretically, make them more likely to grow and spread.
“Diesel exhaust may be carcinogenic by a combination of these effects – we know the particles are coated with the PAHs, delivering them deep into the lungs where they get stuck and, potentially, cause damage. I should stress, though, that we don’t know for certain which of these mechanisms is most important in practice.”'
'But the real game-changers, according to Phillips, were two papers published earlier this year in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute. These looked at exposure levels and cancer rates in a population of over 12,000 miners at eight non-metal mines in the US, and found substantially higher lung cancer rates amongst those with the highest exposure.'
“Petrol exhaust contains similar chemicals to diesel, but petrol engines emit much lower amounts of fine particles,” says Phillips, “so it’s much less able to get stuck in the lungs in the same way as diesel exhaust.”
Again i don't understand the morality of removing a dpf, when the information is out there.
yes the naysayers will shout no it doesn't, the problem with cancer it can take years to develop, but the warning signs are there.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 25th June 09:21
The Spruce goose said:
Another point i informed my insurance that i had a remap, i guess all the people that have removed dpfs have informed there insurance companies, as if they didn't it would invalidate there insurance, not i risk i would want to take really.
My ins co have said several times over the last 10 years I've been with them that as long as I don't enlarge the engine capacity they don't care what mods I do. So the above statement isn't especially accurate. Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 25th June 11:26
I'd agree that removing the so-called anti-pollution devices brings with it the little acknowledged benefits of better mpg in many instances, as do remaps, which in itself obviously reduces pollution, however if it doesn't fit the argument, it won't be a welcome post here.
This forum, and the responses on threads like this, are getting stranger and further away from the reason it was created almost on a daily basis. I genuinely wonder what motivates some of the members to be here, given the negativity and hand-wringing that seems so prevalent now.
rxe said:
And yet London, which has had filthy buses since the 50s has a lower rate of lung cancer and COPD than pretty much every other region in the U.K.....Asthma too....
You should let Cancer Research know about your findings.
There's an interesting map that shows the risk of death by all lung diseases on the British Lung Foundation web site. Again London is nowhere near the lowest risk in the country, though better than quite a few other cities.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Sunday 25th June 15:06
Heaveho said:
My ins co have said several times over the last 10 years I've been with them that as long as I don't enlarge the engine capacity they don't care what mods I do.
One anecdotal evidence statement isn't the same as the rest of the industry which when asking you question on insurance advise it will be declared invalid if any modifications aren't declared.Heaveho said:
This forum, and the responses on threads like this, are getting stranger and further away from the reason it was created almost on a daily basis. I genuinely wonder what motivates some of the members to be here, given the negativity and hand-wringing that seems so prevalent now.
it was created for tvr enthusiasts, it has moved far from that, talking about diesels and ev cars. i think the question is, you can be a car enthusiast whilst having respect for the people around. similar to fly tippers not caring about where they dump rubbish, it is someone else's problem, even though they caused it.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff