Big diesel barge modifications. Remap plus DPF / EGR delete.
Discussion
foxbody-87 said:
I blanked off the EGR and got a remap done on my 2.0D X-Type a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised by the extra oomph it had afterwards. Admittedly it was a little smokier. I apologise to you all profusely for accelerating our course towards Armageddon.
Once again this has nothing to do with bloody global warming, why is this stupid idea so widespread?The Spruce goose said:
Heaveho said:
My ins co have said several times over the last 10 years I've been with them that as long as I don't enlarge the engine capacity they don't care what mods I do.
One anecdotal evidence statement isn't the same as the rest of the industry which when asking you question on insurance advise it will be declared invalid if any modifications aren't declared.Anecdotal it may be. However, it's also factual. And a company available for anyone who chooses to look for them, they're quite well known. A broadminded insurer is a rare thing, I doubt many are aware such a thing can exist.
I have the same engine in my Disco.
Egr valves were removed about 7 years ago by the pervious owner. No mot issues.
A popular upgrade is the removal of the stock intercooler and replacing it with a larger one.
You can buy an alisport one for over £550.
Or, get an RS500 one off eBay, and get the pipework adaptors and fit that. For £155.99.
I have that and a remap from BAS. They are a Land Rover tuner and have spent a long time sorting a good map.
Mine doesn't smoke under load, doesn't kick out black smoke or any crap like that.
Power wise. Stock is 188. Thr map gives an extra 38bhp, IC, is 5-10. So best case is 236bhp and nearly 400 lbft of torque.
Tomorrow my car will cross 162,000 miles.
8000 with the map.
37,000 with the intercooler in place.
Do it properly and your car will be fine.
I would suggest service intervals of 10k or so and run on good fuel. That's what BAS have said to me.
Egr valves were removed about 7 years ago by the pervious owner. No mot issues.
A popular upgrade is the removal of the stock intercooler and replacing it with a larger one.
You can buy an alisport one for over £550.
Or, get an RS500 one off eBay, and get the pipework adaptors and fit that. For £155.99.
I have that and a remap from BAS. They are a Land Rover tuner and have spent a long time sorting a good map.
Mine doesn't smoke under load, doesn't kick out black smoke or any crap like that.
Power wise. Stock is 188. Thr map gives an extra 38bhp, IC, is 5-10. So best case is 236bhp and nearly 400 lbft of torque.
Tomorrow my car will cross 162,000 miles.
8000 with the map.
37,000 with the intercooler in place.
Do it properly and your car will be fine.
I would suggest service intervals of 10k or so and run on good fuel. That's what BAS have said to me.
Old Vauxhall Omega I had. 2.2 DTI with a VP44 pump and only Euro 3 compliant. Perfect spawn of Satan material.
Mild remap as that's all you can sensibly do increasing output by about 20% and EGR delete. At 132K miles belched less black smoke than in it's normal state of tune, decreased fuel consumption by about 5% and the last MOT showed particulates at 30ppm and not a DPF in site.
It's not just what they are that makes them polluting or not or indeed whether they have DPFs or not. Maintaining the old thing fastidiously, in excess of manufacturer recommendations is a good place to start. The service intervals are not designed to maximise long life and health of the engine but rather to sell the car, so it's as much how you look after them whether diesel powered or not that makes them pollute.
Mild remap as that's all you can sensibly do increasing output by about 20% and EGR delete. At 132K miles belched less black smoke than in it's normal state of tune, decreased fuel consumption by about 5% and the last MOT showed particulates at 30ppm and not a DPF in site.
It's not just what they are that makes them polluting or not or indeed whether they have DPFs or not. Maintaining the old thing fastidiously, in excess of manufacturer recommendations is a good place to start. The service intervals are not designed to maximise long life and health of the engine but rather to sell the car, so it's as much how you look after them whether diesel powered or not that makes them pollute.
edward1 said:
I think it is strange how attitudes change, mainly fueled by the mainstream media.
Thats exactly it. The press are whipping up anti diesel sentiment as well as anti PCP / car finance sentiment to try to create a new "scandal" - and its usually absorbed by people whos personal circumstances / finances wouldnt stand up to scrutiny.The Spruce goose said:
daemon said:
"your insurance will be invalidated"
if you remove the dpf, it will contravene the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulation 61A (using a modified car on the road which no longer meets the emissions standards applied to it when new).It is also likely to lead you to having a void insurance policy, which could lead to your insurer withdrawing insurance cover, if a vehicle examination as part of an insurance claim, discovers that the DPF has been removed or tampered with.
But how would anyone buying any used diesel vehicle of any age be able to determine whether the DPF core is still in place or not ?
MuscleSaloon said:
The Spruce goose said:
daemon said:
"your insurance will be invalidated"
if you remove the dpf, it will contravene the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulation 61A (using a modified car on the road which no longer meets the emissions standards applied to it when new).It is also likely to lead you to having a void insurance policy, which could lead to your insurer withdrawing insurance cover, if a vehicle examination as part of an insurance claim, discovers that the DPF has been removed or tampered with.
But how would anyone buying any used diesel vehicle of any age be able to determine whether the DPF core is still in place or not ?
And how would insurance company (a) know and (b) prove you did it, to invalidate your insurance policy.
I would be almost certain my 2016 Passat TDI has its DPF in place but i'd be right on to the Insurance Ombudsman if after say a 30MPH bump the insurance company demanded a forensic examination of my car then cancelled the insurance upon finding that someone else before me had removed the DPF.
Which is why its practically unenforcable, despite all the hand wringing going on here.
This again people making comments without a clue. It is very easy to tell. You run a forced regen through obd. You then check the temperature of dpf core with thermo imaging or laser temperature scanner. It will be clear as a working dpf will be higher temp than surrounding exhaust parts, you are looking at 600 degrees to burn soot off.
Hand wringing, think of kids etc you can have can have differing options you know, and still be a pher.
Hand wringing, think of kids etc you can have can have differing options you know, and still be a pher.
The Spruce goose said:
This again people making comments without a clue. It is very easy to tell. You run a forced regen through obd. You then check the temperature of dpf core with thermo imaging or laser temperature scanner. It will be clear as a working dpf will be higher temp than surrounding exhaust parts, you are looking at 600 degrees to burn soot off.
Hand wringing, think of kids etc you can have can have differing options you know, and still be a pher.
Ah yes, I can remember the last time your average private car buyer had dealer level diagnostic software.Hand wringing, think of kids etc you can have can have differing options you know, and still be a pher.
The Spruce goose said:
This again people making comments without a clue. It is very easy to tell. You run a forced regen through obd. You then check the temperature of dpf core with thermo imaging or laser temperature scanner. It will be clear as a working dpf will be higher temp than surrounding exhaust parts, you are looking at 600 degrees to burn soot off.
Yes, you're absolutely right. You know i wondered what all those other private buyers at the dealers were doing with their full VAGCOM diagnostic kits rigged up to any cars they were looking at. And that blokes wife - now that you mention it - had a laser temperature scanner.If only i'd thought - id all that in the boot of my car!
Its so easy to tell now you've explained!
The Spruce goose said:
Hand wringing, think of kids etc you can have can have differing options you know, and still be a pher.
Yes, absolutely! However some people seem very keen to point the finger at others whilst driving around in their fossil fuel drinking car which doesnt exactly puff out pixie dust, whilst on a motoring enthusiasts site that encourages and condones modifying cars to burn even more fossil fuels?Edited by daemon on Friday 30th June 14:58
I think this thread just shows the futility of any debate, people have such entrenched views they will never accept any difference to theie opinions. Like I posted most don't have a clue what a dpf does.
I would know if the dpf is removed there are other ways without diagnostic equipment but the people that want to not know will plead ignorance.
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
I would know if the dpf is removed there are other ways without diagnostic equipment but the people that want to not know will plead ignorance.
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
The Spruce goose said:
I think this thread just shows the futility of any debate, people have such entrenched views they will never accept any difference to theie opinions. Like I posted most don't have a clue what a dpf does.
I would know if the dpf is removed there are other ways without diagnostic equipment but the people that want to not know will plead ignorance.
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
The thread only shows how daft you are I would know if the dpf is removed there are other ways without diagnostic equipment but the people that want to not know will plead ignorance.
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
My Mrs for example has no idea about cars. She is typical of most people.
She never checks her tyre pressures (I do it).
She never checks her oil (I do it).
She wouldn't know how to change a bulb (I do it)
She doesn't know how to change a wheel (I do it).
If she bought a car that had a DPF removed, as long as it was not a poor quality job and remap, and it wasn't puffing out clouds of smoke then she would have ABSOLUTELY no idea.
Also it's quite unfair to call people cheapskates.
Most DPFs will last approx 150k in good use. But some can and do fail early - whether this is to "incorrect" driving styles or other faults is up for discussion. Imagine your car just out of warranty needs a new DPF it's nearly £3k with dealer level diagnostic prices. Again assuming most people would go to their main dealer. So that's £100 diagnostic fee, £1500 for the DPF, £500 labour, road test, plus other associated gaskets, bolts, fluids etc.
So when you can have them "deleted" for <£1000 it makes absolute sense to most people.
The Spruce goose said:
I think this thread just shows the futility of any debate, people have such entrenched views they will never accept any difference to theie opinions. Like I posted most don't have a clue what a dpf does.
Its not a matter of being entrached its about being objective and pragmatic. The reality is there is not a mission on this planet of an insurance company cancelling your insurance because of a removed DPF.
Suggesting otherwise is simple scaremongering and hand wringing.
Thats the reality of the situation. I dont believe people "should" remove DPFs, however (a) they can with very little risk of consequence and (b) they may well be doing so for what they believe are valid reasons.
The Spruce goose said:
I would know if the dpf is removed there are other ways without diagnostic equipment but the people that want to not know will plead ignorance.
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
As has been cited already - its not a matter of being a cheapskate. DPFs may well now represent the epitome of being fit for purpose, however that hasnt always been the case. They have cause real and expensive problems for people particularly with that god awful 1.6HDI engine that is in Peugeots, Citroens, Fords, Volvos etc and Vauxhalls 1.9. People have had a world of pain because of a particularly bad setup there and the manufacturers washing their hands of it. Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight. It is obvious the only reason most do it because they are just cheapskates who dont want to replace a vital emissions component.
Can you really blame people for opting to make all their problems go away for £300?
We'd a Focus 1.6 TDCI a number of years ago that we were reselling and it took us £3,000+ to get that thing sorted out. DPF, EGR valve, turbo, etc.
There are many of those still rattling about and ran by people who have bought them in good faith and running their cars on an enforced shoestring. Are you really describing them as cheapskates?? If you are it shows you've no understanding of whats happening out there in the real world.
The problem will go away naturally over time as the DPF technology seems to have improved, so whilst i wouldnt personally remove one, i can (a) see why people may have and (b) i'm not gutted (no pun intended) that a small minority do it.
Edited by daemon on Saturday 1st July 12:39
The Spruce goose said:
Like I said if the government decided they would clamp down it will make a lot of cars cheaper overnight.
They've got a long way to go ! The MOT is supposed include a visual check to determine if the DPF is in place. There maybe limitations over being able to see it. There maybe uncertainty over whether a particular model or year of car would have had one fitted originally.
And amazingly its 2017 and there's still not even a proper emissions test for Diesels at MOT time ! .... just the basic old smoke test that was introduced back in 1994 and way before DPFs became commonplace on mainstream cars.
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