L405 Range Rover Hybrid - Broken Crankshaft - 2015

L405 Range Rover Hybrid - Broken Crankshaft - 2015

Author
Discussion

edo

16,699 posts

264 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
saaby93 said:
Wont the value of the vehicle go up with a new engine with only xx miles on it??
I think for some it could be ok or even a positive but for others an issue as the car now has a story and many other Range Rovers out there don't have one.

I know I would walk away, but I guess we are all different.

This is not the first warranty claim, I have a long list including the front brakes and discs which I have never heard of being done under warranty but then they are linked to regenerative charging system when braking...

I guess my point is why should I be in this position of uncertainty in the first place for a so called "luxury Land Rover SUV"...
You shouldnt. Sell it and buy another brand.

skeeterm5

3,328 posts

187 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
Although LR and RR have had terrible reliability issues since i can remember and it doesn't seem to put folk off buying them.

MrBGR

Original Poster:

130 posts

152 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
832ark said:
Can afford a £100k car, doesn't know the difference between effect and affect.
...and now the grammar Police are online, well done!

Funny how my bad grammar never stopped me making money and buying cars...

Now what was that saying "Those who can do, those who can't teach..."

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
I think for some it could be ok or even a positive but for others an issue as the car now has a story and many other Range Rovers out there don't have one.

I know I would walk away, but I guess we are all different.

This is not the first warranty claim, I have a long list including the front brakes and discs which I have never heard of being done under warranty but then they are linked to regenerative charging system when braking...

I guess my point is why should I be in this position of uncertainty in the first place for a so called "luxury Land Rover SUV"...
What recompense are you looking for?

I cant remember the word for it now (begins with c I think) but isnt JLR only building a small number of hybrid cars to make up the quota theyre supposed to produce?
Hasnt VW done the same with the Passat and golf?

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
As for obvious reasons they can't share a common crank.

Could an overloaded/underrated crank be the issue!?
The mild hybrid system is the ZF transmission integrated system:

ZF_transmission_integrated_mild_hybrid

The eMachine sits on the crankshaft output, after the torque convertor. The extra torque loadings don't get into the crank, and even if they did, the small increase in load is irrelevant. However, when the lock-up clutch is, er, locked up, then the rotational inertia of the eMachine is now referenced to the crank, so there is a good chance that the firing load torsional vibrations now are sunk more at the back end of the crank than before, which will lead to a change in crankshaft bending (amplitude and modes). So, is this indicative that JLR haven't done their homework? No idea, i guess we'll see if more failures occurs in the next few months / years!



Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
832ark said:
Can afford a £100k car, doesn't know the difference between effect and affect.
...and now the grammar Police are online, well done!

Funny how my bad grammar never stopped me making money and buying cars...

Now what was that saying "Those who can do, those who can't teach..."
Who's the one with the knackered car?

edo

16,699 posts

264 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all

MrBGR

Original Poster:

130 posts

152 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
hat recompense are you looking for?

I cant remember the word for it now (begins with c I think) but isnt JLR only building a small number of hybrid cars to make up the quota theyre supposed to produce?
Hasnt VW done the same with the Passat and golf?
Yes, similar to what Aston did when they bought out the Cygnet which I believe was "based on" the Toyota iQ, I think it's something to do with EU emissions regulations, but I guess not mention the EU topic...

They have stopped marketing the Hybrid model now.

Ok so what do I want!?

Mainly the questions I asked when it went bang answered, one of them being:

I also need to understand fully the current and ongoing warranty as I would expect the engine to come with a 3 year warranty, I appreciate the rest of the warranty would expire, however I would see this as an further issues unless at the very least an extended warranty would be added when the current warranty expires as I may not do the same 22,000 miles in the car, the point the crankshaft broke, before any warranty expires.

So far they have not answered any of the questions I have put to them, the one above is my main ongoing concern as I appreciate the question of ongoing/future value or not is subjective.

Regardless of the end result I think the communication from Customer Service is very poor, but I guess in the "litigious" world we live in it is safer to say as little as possible...

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
I can assure you I am not "getting upset for little reason" when you spend over £100k on a car you don't expect this to happen in the first place!
Correct. However, irrespective of the price of the car, you have the right to have any problems rectified under warranty - thats whats happening here?

MrBGR said:
You are totally incorrect, I have already tested my theory and it could effect the ongoing value as the car now has "a story", after all there are plenty of others out there for sale, anyway why should I be in a "could" situation!
If i walk into any dealer and give them any reason to devalue my trade in they will. Not necessarily because they should, but because they can.

Surely all you need here - and bearing in mind you've already told us you've opened negotiations for another new car from them - is an assurance and proof they are not valuing your car at under market value?

MrBGR said:
You are also contradicting yourself "being repaired to the highest standard possible" but you also state "for a crankshaft to snap at this mileage would mean it was out of balance/had a defect from day one"

So they can't make right it in the first place but they can repair it really well!
I dont see any contradiction? There was a fault, they replaced the engine? Faults - unfortunately happen. You have so far received the level of support and rectification that anyone would expect in the same situation, whether it be a £10,000, £100,000 or £1,000,000 car.


edo

16,699 posts

264 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
Pretty low showings this year for Jaguar and LR.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20170621/OEM01/170...


MrBGR

Original Poster:

130 posts

152 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
The mild hybrid system is the ZF transmission integrated system:

ZF_transmission_integrated_mild_hybrid

The eMachine sits on the crankshaft output, after the torque convertor. The extra torque loadings don't get into the crank, and even if they did, the small increase in load is irrelevant. However, when the lock-up clutch is, er, locked up, then the rotational inertia of the eMachine is now referenced to the crank, so there is a good chance that the firing load torsional vibrations now are sunk more at the back end of the crank than before, which will lead to a change in crankshaft bending (amplitude and modes). So, is this indicative that JLR haven't done their homework? No idea, i guess we'll see if more failures occurs in the next few months / years!
You really do know your stuff, thank you for the information!

Time will tell I guess...

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
Mainly the questions I asked when it went bang answered, one of them being:

I also need to understand fully the current and ongoing warranty as I would expect the engine to come with a 3 year warranty, I appreciate the rest of the warranty would expire, however I would see this as an further issues unless at the very least an extended warranty would be added when the current warranty expires as I may not do the same 22,000 miles in the car, the point the crankshaft broke, before any warranty expires.

So far they have not answered any of the questions I have put to them, the one above is my main ongoing concern as I appreciate the question of ongoing/future value or not is subjective.

Regardless of the end result I think the communication from Customer Service is very poor, but I guess in the "litigious" world we live in it is safer to say as little as possible...
You're entitled to the remainder of the warranty being honoured. No more, no less. If you were so inclined, i'd push for them to pay for an extra years warranty, however this seems a moot point as you're planning on changing the car anyway?

Your interaction / communication should be through the dealer, who will communicate with LR UK if required. Unless you are escalating the issue to LR UK (and therefore out of the hands of your local dealer), then i wouldnt have thought they will want to comment / commit / step on the dealers toes.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
Yes, similar to what Aston did when they bought out the Cygnet which I believe was "based on" the Toyota iQ, I think it's something to do with EU emissions regulations, but I guess not mention the EU topic...

They have stopped marketing the Hybrid model now.

Ok so what do I want!?

Mainly the questions I asked when it went bang answered, one of them being:

I also need to understand fully the current and ongoing warranty as I would expect the engine to come with a 3 year warranty, I appreciate the rest of the warranty would expire, however I would see this as an further issues unless at the very least an extended warranty would be added when the current warranty expires as I may not do the same 22,000 miles in the car, the point the crankshaft broke, before any warranty expires.

So far they have not answered any of the questions I have put to them, the one above is my main ongoing concern as I appreciate the question of ongoing/future value or not is subjective.

Regardless of the end result I think the communication from Customer Service is very poor, but I guess in the "litigious" world we live in it is safer to say as little as possible...
All youre looking for is the engine warranty to be extended to to the same as if it was new
Doesn't sound unreasonable (unless they think its going to pack in again hehe )

daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
All youre looking for is the engine warranty to be extended to to the same as if it was new
Doesn't sound unreasonable (unless they think its going to pack in again hehe )
I think its seen in legal terms as betterment - ie, you are entitled to have the item returned to the condition it was in before the fault which means X months warranty remaining.

You have no "right" to have that extended, however i would personally be asking for it as a goodwill gesture.

I'm not sure of the relevance anyway given the O/P has opened negotiations to change the car anyway?

MrBGR

Original Poster:

130 posts

152 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
Willy Nilly said:
Who's the one with the knackered car?
What a very aggressive comment...

I was hoping for advice from others not an English Lesson...

Any way to answer your question, Land Rover have a knackered car not me, I have a very nice Range Rover Sport to use whilst they sort it, also as I finance a small part of any car I buy with the manufacture they have an additional interest if I need to go that route...

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
daemon said:
I think its seen in legal terms as betterment - ie, you are entitled to have the item returned to the condition it was in before the fault which means X months warranty remaining.
You mean in a state where it's likely to fail again with something

daemon said:
You have no "right" to have that extended, however i would personally be asking for it as a goodwill gesture.
Unless they have loads of these going pop, it would also create a happy customer
'the engine went bang but theyve given me a new one and put a 3 year warranty on it'

If he'd bought a Toyota hybrid wouldn't it have 5 years?

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
Ask to trade the car in for a new RR (for example).
If they offer you a bad deal and use the new engine as an excuse then you will know what the 'story' has cost you.
I'm guessing it won't make any difference but it's a useful test anyway.

MrBGR

Original Poster:

130 posts

152 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
edo said:
You shouldnt. Sell it and buy another brand.
Well they have let me have a Range Rover Sport whilst they are sorting it and to be honest I am really enjoying it, so I went and took a look at a Mecan, a bit smaller than the Sport but a lot of car, maybe time for a change!?

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
MrBGR said:
Well they have let me have a Range Rover Sport whilst they are sorting it and to be honest I am really enjoying it, so I went and took a look at a Mecan, a bit smaller than the Sport but a lot of car, maybe time for a change!?
This has the RRS as no1
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/porsche/macan

Andy-6ufnp

133 posts

96 months

Saturday 24th June 2017
quotequote all
I suggest you look at fullfatrr.com, sign up and post on there. Some of the comments on here are just out of order and typical of some of the lifeless dross on this forum.
I have experienced several issues with my L405's and I wouldn't bother posting questions on here any more.