L405 Range Rover Hybrid - Broken Crankshaft - 2015

[mwstewart]

TooMany2cvs said:

Yes, they do. If you buy the parts. You're not buying the parts.

Customer or dealer sourcing is irrelevant - the parts havery a warranty - https://www.landrover.co.uk/ownership/warranty/par...

It has always been the case and is part of the reason OE is more expensive to begin with; the manufacturer is not absolved of their commitment to quality just because the part is fitted as a warranty claim, in fact common sense would dictate they should be more committed to it for the sake of maintaining brand image and preventing the loss of repeat custom.

[TooMany2cvs]

mwstewart said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Yes, they do. If you buy the parts. You're not buying the parts.

Customer or dealer sourcing is irrelevant - the parts havery a warranty - https://www.landrover.co.uk/ownership/warranty/par...

It has always been the case and is part of the reason OE is more expensive to begin with; the manufacturer is not absolved of their commitment to quality just because the part is fitted as a warranty claim, in fact common sense would dictate they should be more committed to it for the sake of maintaining brand image and preventing the loss of repeat custom.

Land Rover said:

If purchased outside of these parameters...

You aren't purchasing them. They're being supplied as warranty replacements for the parts you DID purchase.

[mwstewart]

TooMany2cvs said:

Land Rover said:

If purchased outside of these parameters...

You aren't purchasing them. They're being supplied as warranty replacements for the parts you DID purchase.

Have a re-read:

"When Land Rover Genuine Parts and Accessories are fitted or supplied by a Land Rover Retailer or Approved Service Centre, they are covered by the same manufacturer’s warranty if purchased within one month or 1,000 miles of vehicle handover. If purchased outside of these parameters they are subject to 24 month warranty for the cost of repair or replacement."

The parameters are:
1) Within 1000 miles of vehicle purchase;
2) Within one month of vehicle purchase.

If the above parameters aren't met the parts still have the standard 24 month warranty. If they are met the standard parts warranty (24 months) is extended to match the vehicle warranty - presumably three years.

The reason for the purchase is completely irrelevant.

[Greg_D]

MrBGR said:

saaby93 said:

hat recompense are you looking for?

I cant remember the word for it now (begins with c I think) but isnt JLR only building a small number of hybrid cars to make up the quota theyre supposed to produce?
Hasnt VW done the same with the Passat and golf?

Yes, similar to what Aston did when they bought out the Cygnet which I believe was "based on" the Toyota iQ, I think it's something to do with EU emissions regulations, but I guess not mention the EU topic...

They have stopped marketing the Hybrid model now.

Ok so what do I want!?

Mainly the questions I asked when it went bang answered, one of them being:

I also need to understand fully the current and ongoing warranty as I would expect the engine to come with a 3 year warranty, I appreciate the rest of the warranty would expire, however I would see this as an further issues unless at the very least an extended warranty would be added when the current warranty expires as I may not do the same 22,000 miles in the car, the point the crankshaft broke, before any warranty expires.

So far they have not answered any of the questions I have put to them, the one above is my main ongoing concern as I appreciate the question of ongoing/future value or not is subjective.

Regardless of the end result I think the communication from Customer Service is very poor, but I guess in the "litigious" world we live in it is safer to say as little as possible...

:constructive answer alert: did you make any contribution to the cost of the new engine? even if it was a tenner! if you did then you have a full warrantee associated with that part. if you didn't then it gets rolled into the remains of the original vehicle warrantee.

is it too late to insist on making a contribution? your consumer rights will be protected more completely if you do...

[TooMany2cvs]

mwstewart said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Land Rover said:

If purchased outside of these parameters...

You aren't purchasing them. They're being supplied as warranty replacements for the parts you DID purchase.

Have a re-read:

"When Land Rover Genuine Parts and Accessories are fitted or supplied by a Land Rover Retailer or Approved Service Centre, they are covered by the same manufacturer’s warranty if purchased within one month or 1,000 miles of vehicle handover. If purchased outside of these parameters they are subject to 24 month warranty for the cost of repair or replacement."

The parameters are:
1) Within 1000 miles of vehicle purchase;
2) Within one month of vehicle purchase.

If the above parameters aren't met the parts still have the standard 24 month warranty. If they are met the standard parts warranty (24 months) is extended to match the vehicle warranty - presumably three years.

The reason for the purchase is completely irrelevant.

And I repeat - you aren't purchasing them.

[edo]

MrBGR said:

edo said:

1. confused. Same manufacturer and reliability issues?

I said similar size to a Sport but not a Land Rover... ;-)

Maybe a Cayman or Macan...

Yup. Best in business residuals and waaaay better on reliability.

We had a 3.0 v6 cayenne for two and a half years and it never went wrong in any way shape or form. We sold it for 86 percent of what we paid for it.

We just sold our 4.2 twin turbo diesel cayenne after two and a half years and that never had a single issue bar a standard service.

[Krikkit]

Prizam said:

I don't believe in coincidences either. The Adblue issue is definitely isolated, however. The guy "flashing" your ECU is probably not. It would be quite easy to mess this bit up and as a result, break a crank. Especially considering the hybrid part of the equation.

Do you think he's writing the map by hand? How could he manage that exactly?

[TooMany2cvs]

Krikkit said:

Prizam said:

I don't believe in coincidences either. The Adblue issue is definitely isolated, however. The guy "flashing" your ECU is probably not. It would be quite easy to mess this bit up and as a result, break a crank. Especially considering the hybrid part of the equation.

Do you think he's writing the map by hand? How could he manage that exactly?

Obvs.

[anonymous-user]

Prizam said:

My 10p...
It would be quite easy to mess this bit up and as a result, break a crank.

No, no it wouldn't for two reasons:

1) Corrupted flash means the checksums don't match and the engine won't start

2) Any misfire big enough to break the crank would be very obvious to the driver and vehicle occupants

[Prizam]

Max_Torque said:

Prizam said:

My 10p...
It would be quite easy to mess this bit up and as a result, break a crank.

No, no it wouldn't for two reasons:

1) Corrupted flash means the checksums don't match and the engine won't start

2) Any misfire big enough to break the crank would be very obvious to the driver and vehicle occupants

1. Checksums mean the data is not corrupt. not that you haven't put the wrong image on.

2. I was suggesting an issue with the hybrid part. Motor stop/lock whilst driving stopping the IC engine dead... for example.

[anonymous-user]

Prizam said:

Max_Torque said:

Prizam said:

My 10p...
It would be quite easy to mess this bit up and as a result, break a crank.

No, no it wouldn't for two reasons:

1) Corrupted flash means the checksums don't match and the engine won't start

2) Any misfire big enough to break the crank would be very obvious to the driver and vehicle occupants

1. Checksums mean the data is not corrupt. not that you haven't put the wrong image on.


2. I was suggesting an issue with the hybrid part. Motor stop/lock whilst driving stopping the IC engine dead... for example.

What calibration are you going to flash in (that matches the memory image CS in the flash tool) that would cause the engine to heavily misfire (enough to break the crank!) AND THEN the person doing the flashing, and the owner / driver also completely failing to spot that after the flash the car was running like a POS??

2) Emachine hasn't got enough torque to "stop" the crank, and even if it could, if wouldn't be a hard stop, in fact no difference to "stalling the engine" like people do with manual transmissions hundreds of times a day

[mwstewart]

TooMany2cvs said:

And I repeat - you aren't purchasing them.

It doesn't matter who purchased the part - it is installed in the customers car, ergo the customers car contains the warrantied part. All supplied parts have the warranty. I would have thought that is really obvious.

Same for all manufacturers these days, e.g. Toyota http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id...

[TooMany2cvs]

mwstewart said:

It doesn't matter who purchased the part - it is installed in the customers car, ergo the customers car contains the warrantied part. All supplied parts have the warranty. I would have thought that is really obvious.

Same for all manufacturers these days, e.g. Toyota http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id...

Lovely, so Toyota give 12mo on parts replaced under warranty in the US. I'm... very happy. If a little confused about how that applies to JLR in the UK.

[gtidriver]

I had the engine replaced in my Fiat Panda 100hp at around 65000miles by Fiat, the car was coming up to 3 yrs old and was over mileage but under time, i paid for the Fiat extended warranty so it was covered. I paid for a recon clutch as the car was in bits, after it was put back togeather again the service manager said as id contributed i was given a 2yrs unlimited mileage warranty. I know different manufacture and situation but free warranties are given.

[BlackGT3]

edo said:

MrBGR said:

edo said:

1. confused. Same manufacturer and reliability issues?

I said similar size to a Sport but not a Land Rover... ;-)

Maybe a Cayman or Macan...

Yup. Best in business residuals and waaaay better on reliability.

We had a 3.0 v6 cayenne for two and a half years and it never went wrong in any way shape or form. We sold it for 86 percent of what we paid for it.

We just sold our 4.2 twin turbo diesel cayenne after two and a half years and that never had a single issue bar a standard service.

In my experience, the Porsches and Audi's I have owned have been considerably less reliable than the LR products. Our current RR is 3.5 years old and hasn't had a single issue bar standard servicing, same goes for our previous Disco 4. At 4 years and 40k miles, the Disco retained 63% of its original value at trade in.

[edo]

BlackGT3 said:

edo said:

MrBGR said:

edo said:

1. confused. Same manufacturer and reliability issues?

I said similar size to a Sport but not a Land Rover... ;-)

Maybe a Cayman or Macan...

Yup. Best in business residuals and waaaay better on reliability.

We had a 3.0 v6 cayenne for two and a half years and it never went wrong in any way shape or form. We sold it for 86 percent of what we paid for it.

We just sold our 4.2 twin turbo diesel cayenne after two and a half years and that never had a single issue bar a standard service.

In my experience, the Porsches and Audi's I have owned have been considerably less reliable than the LR products. Our current RR is 3.5 years old and hasn't had a single issue bar standard servicing, same goes for our previous Disco 4. At 4 years and 40k miles, the Disco retained 63% of its original value at trade in.

You should quit whilst you are statistically ahead

[Sheepshanks]

mwstewart said:

TooMany2cvs said:

And I repeat - you aren't purchasing them.

It doesn't matter who purchased the part - it is installed in the customers car, ergo the customers car contains the warrantied part. All supplied parts have the warranty. I would have thought that is really obvious.

It's absolutely standard practice that only the balance of the original warranty applies.

[hman]

So...2nd hand Range Rover does a "Range Rover" and borks monumentally.

Land Rover offer to sort out free of charge

Range Rover owner gets uppity about JLR ignoring uppity emails.

Turns to the PH masses for advice- gets mixed opinions.

Range Rover owner is no better off but has vented spleen to PH masses but has admitted to being a serial JLR owner which reveals that form over function is strong in this one.

All seems a bit mumsnet really.

[mcford]

The customer bought a vehicle not a collection of parts that make the vehicle, so the vehicle will be covered under the new car warranty - not the parts and accessories warranty.

STANDARD MANUFACTURER’S WARRANTY

Your new Land Rover comes complete with the reassurance of an unlimited mileage, three-year manufacturer’s warranty, providing free repairs and roadside assistance.

The only way to get the parts warranty to apply to the replacement engine is if the customer paid for the engine or made a contribution to the cost of the engine, where he'll be provided with an invoice to show that it was purchased, even if the invoice shows 99% discount.

Just keeping track of all the parts replaced under warranty, dates and the parts warranty anniversary would be a logistical/administrative nightmare if the parts warranty applied to parts replaced under the new car warranty.

[MrBGR]

hman said:

So...2nd hand Range Rover does a "Range Rover" and borks monumentally.

Land Rover offer to sort out free of charge

Range Rover owner gets uppity about JLR ignoring uppity emails.

Turns to the PH masses for advice- gets mixed opinions.

Range Rover owner is no better off but has vented spleen to PH masses but has admitted to being a serial JLR owner which reveals that form over function is strong in this one.

All seems a bit mumsnet really.

I thought my communications with Jaguar Land Rover have been quite tame, if you read what I said I agree I don't have anything to complain about as they are putting a new engine in and I have a car to keep me mobile, but that was not my question moving forward.

Yes, I welcome the mixed opinions and I value the input, the very fact there are differing opinions shows there is an issue!

Surely the idea of a forum is to explain a situation and see if anyone can help with positive or negative input but not personal comments and some quite offensive messages.

Yes I have owned a number of Range Rovers your comments "admitted to being a serial JLR owner" makes it sound like some sort of crime!

To date I had no issues with reliability, I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

Anyway a few of the posts on this tread and a couple on www.fullfatrr.com have been really, really helpful so thank you to those who have replied.

Never been on mumsnet, but I am sure they value your comments and wise words of advice.