Van driver narrowly avoids cyclist

[FiF]

WinstonWolf said:

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

WinstonWolf said:

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

....at best. Still suspect real answer is significantly more aggressive.

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr


Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Thanks for clearing the indicator situation up, it's not easy to see on a small screen.

You can see the bike is well established on the slip road before the van arrives.

Exactly.

[Integroo]

FiF said:

WinstonWolf said:

TheRainMaker said:

Ares said:

WinstonWolf said:

I've just watched it again and it doesn't look like the van's indicating until it's half way into the sliproad. Could be my eyes on this screen but it looks like a late call on the van drivers part?

....at best. Still suspect real answer is significantly more aggressive.

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr


Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Thanks for clearing the indicator situation up, it's not easy to see on a small screen.

You can see the bike is well established on the slip road before the van arrives.

Exactly.

Agreed.

[saaby93]

frisbee said:

I'm thinking of starting a catering service for all the people on this thread who are too timid to pull out if there is anything in sight. They must be getting pretty hungry by now.

Ice cream might go down well too
Keep the popcorn out the way

[DoubleD]

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

WinstonWolf said:

DoubleD said:

cb1965 said:

Hate to say it but when I ride and am in a situation like that I get as far right as possible so that faster traffic can pass me to turn right. Yes I know that is probably not in the Highway Code etc. but I think self preservation in those sort of situations. Basically I find being in the middle of the road more dangerous than being at the edge, but maybe that's just me.

Yep I agree. No way I would ride in the middle of the road.

Riding in the gutter is far riskier...

I disagree

Then IN MY OPINION you are wrong. The gutter is littered with holes, debris, drain covers and allows drivers to think they can squeeze past.

Fixed that for you.

[DoubleD]

Ares said:

M-SportMatt said:

DoubleD said:

I would still have positioned myself near the verge and not near the line between 2 lanes.

Best of luck changing sides further down in traffic then, or when a lorry just pushes you into the verge because you've left an open invitation to them.

This is not like cycling in a town with slow traffic

Thats the difference between commuting cyclists and leisure cyclists.

I am both so whats your point?

You think that its safer to ride in the middle of the road and I dont.

I ride near the edge, which isnt littered with pot holes or rubbish. I manage just fine and never have problems with other traffic.

[saaby93]

ojoman said:

You can take what examples you like:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/...

But penalties are quite often very light indeed.

The penalty is for what the driver did - not the outcome, no matter how good nor bad.
That's the way our system of justice works although it is beginning to change
The guy hit black ice after that he was no more than a passenger
The courts applied the appropriate penalty at the time £180 and 6 points.
You get a similar approach when someone sneezes, at that point theyre not in control (= no liability) although obviously they'll do their best

So that means here
What did the cyclist do
What did the driver do

[anonymous-user]

WinstonWolf said:

cb1965 said:

WinstonWolf said:

Riding in the gutter is far riskier...

There was no gutter and if he had been to the right there was acres of space for the van. It's not rocket science!

And how much training have you had? People say "bloody cyclists should have training" well guess what, some of us have and when we point out that gutter hugging is riskier the uneducated still disagree

PS, that concrete thing on the right, that's called a gutter...

Some of us have had training, but also have the added benefit of intelligence which tells us when and when not to do exactly as we have been trained. You're not in that 'some of us' btw! HTH!

[Ares]

DoubleD said:

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

WinstonWolf said:

DoubleD said:

cb1965 said:

Hate to say it but when I ride and am in a situation like that I get as far right as possible so that faster traffic can pass me to turn right. Yes I know that is probably not in the Highway Code etc. but I think self preservation in those sort of situations. Basically I find being in the middle of the road more dangerous than being at the edge, but maybe that's just me.

Yep I agree. No way I would ride in the middle of the road.

Riding in the gutter is far riskier...

I disagree

Then IN MY OPINION you are wrong. The gutter is littered with holes, debris, drain covers and allows drivers to think they can squeeze past.

Fixed that for you.

If it makes you happy.

So what IS a gutter if the concrete edge to a road isn't one? IN YOUR OPINION

[Ares]

DoubleD said:

Ares said:

M-SportMatt said:

DoubleD said:

I would still have positioned myself near the verge and not near the line between 2 lanes.

Best of luck changing sides further down in traffic then, or when a lorry just pushes you into the verge because you've left an open invitation to them.

This is not like cycling in a town with slow traffic

Thats the difference between commuting cyclists and leisure cyclists.

I am both so whats your point?

You think that its safer to ride in the middle of the road and I dont.

I ride near the edge, which isnt littered with pot holes or rubbish. I manage just fine and never have problems with other traffic.

Wow, bibshorts in a twist? Why so angry?

I was responding the comments directly above, not at you dear.


FWIW, I don't carte-blanche think it's safer to ride in the middle of the road.

[M-SportMatt]

M-SportMatt said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

and again at 8 sec

Frame 1 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

just to show the difference between on and off....

Frame 2 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van at 9 seconds.

Frame 3 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Not sure of your point, the cyclist started moving as the van was barely in sight, should he have used extra sensory perception or 'the force' to know the van was coming?

as you can see the cyclist was moving as the van comes into sight, pause at 1 second https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtBrCM3wggU what else can the cyclist do apart from not use the junction at all?

It took a further 10 seconds for the van to draw alongside, all the time while being in full sight. 10 seconds is a big distance at 50 mph (225 metres), the van had ample time to behave properly.

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:10

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:12

Edited by M-SportMatt on Thursday 20th July 17:12

[DoubleD]

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

Ares said:

M-SportMatt said:

DoubleD said:

I would still have positioned myself near the verge and not near the line between 2 lanes.

Best of luck changing sides further down in traffic then, or when a lorry just pushes you into the verge because you've left an open invitation to them.

This is not like cycling in a town with slow traffic

Thats the difference between commuting cyclists and leisure cyclists.

I am both so whats your point?

You think that its safer to ride in the middle of the road and I dont.

I ride near the edge, which isnt littered with pot holes or rubbish. I manage just fine and never have problems with other traffic.

Wow, bibshorts in a twist? Why so angry?

I was responding the comments directly above, not at you dear.


FWIW, I don't carte-blanche think it's safer to ride in the middle of the road.

Who says im angry?

[DoubleD]

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

Ares said:

DoubleD said:

WinstonWolf said:

DoubleD said:

cb1965 said:

Hate to say it but when I ride and am in a situation like that I get as far right as possible so that faster traffic can pass me to turn right. Yes I know that is probably not in the Highway Code etc. but I think self preservation in those sort of situations. Basically I find being in the middle of the road more dangerous than being at the edge, but maybe that's just me.

Yep I agree. No way I would ride in the middle of the road.

Riding in the gutter is far riskier...

I disagree

Then IN MY OPINION you are wrong. The gutter is littered with holes, debris, drain covers and allows drivers to think they can squeeze past.

Fixed that for you.

If it makes you happy.

So what IS a gutter if the concrete edge to a road isn't one? IN YOUR OPINION

I put that in capitals so that you can see what changes i have made.

Yes i agree that the concrete edge is a gutter.

[saaby93]

DoubleD said:

Yes i agree that the concrete edge is a gutter.

Doess anyone have a better photo of it?
All I can see is kerbing and tarmac up to it
Some DCs have 6 inches concrete flat surface next to the kerb or a couple of feet wide shallow concrete channel which I suppose could be called gutter but I cant see any here

[TheRainMaker]

Ares said:

Bullst. By the time he started indicating, the bike had pulled out, crossed the road and was well in the slip road/filter lane.

Stop making things up you can't tell if the indicator is on or off before 7 secs.

[TheRainMaker]

M-SportMatt said:

M-SportMatt said:

TheRainMaker said:

Nope, you are wrong.

Indicator on at 7 sec on the other side of the junction.

Frame 4 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

and again at 8 sec

Frame 1 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

just to show the difference between on and off....

Frame 2 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van at 9 seconds.

Frame 3 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Van took around two seconds to clear the junction, bike didn't leave anywhere near enough room.

Not sure of your point, the cyclist started moving as the van was barely in sight, should he have used extra sensory perception or 'the force' to know the van was coming?

as you can see the cyclist was moving as the van comes into sight, pause at 1 second https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtBrCM3wggU what else can the cyclist do apart from not use the junction at all?

It took a further 10 seconds for the van to draw alongside, all the time while being in full sight. 10 seconds is a big distance at 50 mph (225 metres), the van had ample time to behave properly.

Reason for the post was, people saying the van didn't indicate until he was in filter lane, this is not true.

FYI Van passes a lamp post when the bike crosses the white lines (small screen is not in sync with the main screen BTW) at 4 secs this gives a time of 7 secs between the bike pulling out and the van being behind the bike , van covered 95 meters in that time, this gives an average speed for the van of 30 MPH.

rear wheel by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

One van Past arrow by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

Screen Shot 2017-07-20 at 21.47.49 by The Rain Maker, on Flickr

So basically the bike pulled out when the van was only 50 meters away traveling around 30 mph and indicating to turn right.

Van would have been in full view of the biker.

PS maths is not my strong point so this may all be balls.

Edited by TheRainMaker on Thursday 20th July 22:04

[saaby93]

is it necessary to keep posting the whole set?
anyway how did you get the distance? and what difference does it make?

[TheRainMaker]

saaby93 said:

is it necessary to keep posting the whole set?
anyway how did you get the distance? and what difference does it make?

People were saying the van was speeding, it wasn't.

Distance was worked out by the van passing the lamp post at 4 secs, then one van length past the arrow on the floor at 10 sec.

[saaby93]

TheRainMaker said:

People were saying the van was speeding, it wasn't.

Distance was worked out by the van passing the lamp post at 4 secs, then one van length past the arrow on the floor at 10 sec.

The dashed white are at set intervals. We've used those in the past to work out someones speed but you do have to watch camera angles
The van doesnt go that quickly past the bike possibly 10-20mph differential - i dont know. It can be worked out too.

It's the camera that bothers me. it may be giving a false impression.
The bike didnt try to make a significant move, if the pass seemed as dangerous as being portrayed

Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 20th July 22:30

[mybrainhurts]

DoubleD said:

cb1965 said:

Hate to say it but when I ride and am in a situation like that I get as far right as possible so that faster traffic can pass me to turn right. Yes I know that is probably not in the Highway Code etc. but I think self preservation in those sort of situations. Basically I find being in the middle of the road more dangerous than being at the edge, but maybe that's just me.

Yep I agree. No way I would ride in the middle of the road.

Some cyclists suffer from hedgehog syndrome.

[TheRainMaker]

saaby93 said:

i dont know. It can be worked out too.

Not by me

Bikes average over 32 meters and 7 secs is an average of 10 mph.

You are 100% correct on the camera giving a much worse impression than reality, it probably has a 180 degree lens.