Looking at buying a diesel now?

[daemon]

grumpynuts said:

Currently, residual values of diesel cars are dropping much faster that petrol cars.The rush away from diesel is just starting, with many people planning to buy a petrol or hybrid car next time.The trade are starting to knock diesel px prices as they are worried about unwanted stock hanging around and dropping quickly in value. Those manufacturers with no viable petrol offerings will still be pushing diesel models, as that's all they have. The Passat issue is a classic example, I suggest the poster looks at a petrol hybrid for his next car. A Lexus IS is a very nice place to be, much nicer than a Passat, with tons of good used ones about.

I dont think there will be a "rush" away from diesels just a gravitation towards petrol variants. I dont see that as a bad thing.

The trade are always looking for reasons to talk down the values of trade ins - when you're buying the car they are selling you is "in demand", "not likely to sit long", "the one everyone wants", come trade in time its "off the boil", "not seeing the level of interest there was", etc, etc.

Whats the Passat "issue" by the way?

[Ron99]

daemon said:

.....Whats the Passat "issue" by the way?....

The 'issue' is probably that they didn't offer any petrol versions for a few years until the recent GTE PHEV.
Toureg also has no petrol versions available at the moment.
The same can be said about most large cars where meeting CO2 targets would have been much more difficult with petrol than diesel - 90% or more of Mondeo and Insignia are diesel.

[daemon]

Ron99 said:

daemon said:

.....Whats the Passat "issue" by the way?....

The 'issue' is probably that they didn't offer any petrol versions for a few years until the recent GTE PHEV.
Toureg also has no petrol versions available at the moment.
The same can be said about most large cars where meeting CO2 targets would have been much more difficult with petrol than diesel - 90% or more of Mondeo and Insignia are diesel.

Of interest, VW have introduced a full range of petrol variants in to the passat range.

It will be interesting to see how they sell

[Loyly]

Ron99 said:

Luxury cars with penny-pinching diesel engines so the owners (leasers) can afford to run the thing on their tight monthly budget.
If they can really afford a luxury car and are as wealthy as their car is portraying, the extra fuel cost of a petrol should be pocket change.

I used to be a die-hard advocate of petrol engines and I put my money where my mouth is, running an Audi A8 4.2 and a Jaguar XJ8 4.0. Both had utterly dire economy, but the trade off in the Audi, in particular, was a wonderful drive.

With that being said, as the years have gone by I've tried more and more diesels in big cars and they have reached a point of refinement in both drive and NVH standards that I would personally choose a diesel in a big car now. The Audi 4.2 TDi, the VW V10 TDi, or a six cylinder Mercedes diesel, for instance. The smoothness and pleasant smell of petrol isn't enough to sway me now. That said, I do all right but I'm not rich. I'd be better off fueling a diesel.

My wife drives a Civic i-DTEC and I have a Jazz Hybrid. Out of the two, the Civic is a better drive. It's much faster than the Jazz, yet the fuel bills are much the same. On a long, steady trip at 70mph the Jazz will return over 60mpg but the Civic will easily do 75mpg plus. The Jazz gets used for a lot of the short trips we do, but the Civic does a lot of short trips too with no ill-effect.

I'll be keeping the Jazz for a couple more years and then I'll sling it, either for something more sporty like a Z4 or Cooper S, or a big diesel slugger.

[Sheepshanks]

Ron99 said:

Toureg also has no petrol versions available at the moment.

I dread to think what the real-world economy of a petrol Touareg would be. They do a 3.6L V6 in the US with advertised city MPG of 17 (so about 21 in our money).

Missus has one of the last of the old model Tiguans - I know they've been offered with petrol in the distant past but when we bought only diesel was available. I look at a couple of Tiguan forums and people who have switched to petrol in the new model aren't thrilled with it at all in terms of the drive or its MPG.

[Dog Star]

Ron99 said:

Why compare turbo-diesel against na petrol?
Most manufacturers have gone for turbo-petrol and it's not unusual for a turbo-petrol to have torque that's not far short of that of the same-capacity diesel and capable or maintaining that torque far higher up the rev range.

O rly? Due to an event involving a motorway crash barrier I've gone from an E class 220d to a 200 petrol (so 2148 diesel turbo to 2000 petrol turbo) - otherwise identical cars.

On paper the petrol puts out more power and is faster. Except it isn't - not by a long chalk.

The diesel was a point to point faster car on A roads and had loads more "real world" overtaking grunt. Give me the diesel any day.

[Sheepshanks]

Dog Star said:

O rly? Due to an event involving a motorway crash barrier I've gone from an E class 220d to a 200 petrol (so 2148 diesel turbo to 2000 petrol turbo) - otherwise identical cars.

On paper the petrol puts out more power and is faster. Except it isn't - not by a long chalk.

The diesel was a point to point faster car on A roads and had loads more "real world" overtaking grunt. Give me the diesel any day.

I know the diesel will feel more powerful and If they were manuals I could understand your comments but as they'll both be autos surely you just plant your right foot and let the auto box take care of the rest?

[benjijames28]

I bought a diesel 5 series, not for the lower tax, not for the mpg, not for the power, not for resale value... I bought it purely because it's hard to find petrol ones.

[PieSlayer]

I'm in a similar quandary. I've always wanted an E class Mercedes. The one I really want is a 350CDI, but I only do 10,000 miles a year, but I also never venture near London.

[anonymous-user]

I don't think i would ever buy a diesel again. i feel liberated with petrol cars, diesel cars are bigged up by the derv fanboys but there is so much complicated equipment to keep them clean it is ridiculous. o.k petrol costs might be slightly higher but i would bet over time times the would be cheaper than a derv.
petrol car choices are pretty good, and a v6 would match any diesel, and if you are worried about fuel costs get it lpgd.

[Cobnapint]

I'd buy diesel again, for the economy and torque.

There is no viable alternative at the mo for SUVs, delivery vans, lorries, buses etc etc.

Once all the EU4 and below old smokers have died a natural death, air quality should improve. I fear for CO2 levels though if several million people get scared by the recent anti-diesel campaign and swop to that ultra safe other fuel - petrol.

[anonymous-user]

Cobnapint said:

I'd buy diesel again, for the economy and torque.

There is no viable alternative at the mo for SUVs, delivery vans, lorries, buses etc etc.

Quite possible, but trucks tests are more stringent, for example a company truck owner could not get way with removing the dpf, like a lot do on here.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/0...

'Diesel cars emit 10 times more toxic pollution than trucks and buses, data shows'

'Modern diesel cars produce 10 times more toxic air pollution than heavy trucks and buses, new European data has revealed.'

'NOx pollution is responsible for tens of thousands of early deaths across Europe, with the UK suffering a particularly high toll. Much of the pollution is produced by diesel cars, which on the road emit about six times more than allowed in the official lab-based tests.'

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/2...

i think anyone buying a modern diesel has to account for some sort of morality check when buying one.

the problem was the government leading us down this path when we should have followed the US approach and made diesel use much harder.

Edited by The Spruce goose on Saturday 22 July 18:45

[otolith]

benjijames28 said:

I bought a diesel 5 series, not for the lower tax, not for the mpg, not for the power, not for resale value... I bought it purely because it's hard to find petrol ones.

That's why I bought a diesel E-class estate. To be honest, it suits the car. Big six cylinder diesel, automatic gearbox, enough sound insulation that you can't hear the godawful racket it makes. Decent fuel economy, decent performance, no fun to drive, but if you want fun, you don't buy a German barge.

[Timbergiant]

There was a similar thread a while ago and I said I wouldn't buy another diesel as it was about to become very unpopular, the thread seemed to upset a few very vocal diesel fans who went on to decry anyone who spoke ill of their tractors
A few weeks after that the media started reporting some UK cities were looking into banning diesels, we've had more emissions cheating revealed and there will certainly be more to come, the queens speech set out the intent of the government to get people into electric/green cars, the way it's going diesel will be only used for heavy machinery before too long.

At the time I was looking for a new car, it was going to be a diesel but as all the signs looked less than favourable I opted for petrol 330e, and ever since I'm getting over 100 mpg and zero road tax.

Edited by Timbergiant on Sunday 23 July 13:05

[J4CKO]

Ron99 said:

daemon said:

.....Whats the Passat "issue" by the way?....

The 'issue' is probably that they didn't offer any petrol versions for a few years until the recent GTE PHEV.
Toureg also has no petrol versions available at the moment.
The same can be said about most large cars where meeting CO2 targets would have been much more difficult with petrol than diesel - 90% or more of Mondeo and Insignia are diesel.

Indeed, do a search on Autotrader, for a given model that isnt a supermini or a "hot" model and the pickings are slim for petrols, Focus sized stuff you get some, but anything bigger, diesel all the way, try and get say a 2012 Mondeo, 376 diesels and a grand total of 19 petrol engined ones, for the period 2010 to 2017 there are 2438 diesels and 158 petrols available.

Now, that isnt going to make me a desirable dinner party raconteur but does show that a vast majority of the UK's car fleet is diesel powered and more are still being registered, it will still take years to filter those through to end of life, seems a shame to destroy still serviceable vehicles, considering the energy and material invested, it seems bizarre when I live near Manchester AIrport which is massively expanding and huge planes are taking off every 10 seconds.

I am not a diesel fanboy but think some common sense needs to be applied and not a knee jerk, especially one that dispenses a financial kicking to owners, there needs to be a bit more Carrot than stick occasionally.

[FN2TypeR]

Ron99 said:

av185 said:

Welcome to the world of pcps......

I pulled into my local Tesco for a tank of Momentum 99 yesterday evening and a diesel Audi A4 pulls up to use the pump behind me.
I'd only put £20 of petrol into my car before the Audi driver has finished and is walking with their kid to the kiosk to pay.
Was £20 of Tesco diesel all they could afford to put in? I strongly suspect it was.

Maybe the tank was already partially full - how can you say otherwise with any degree of certainty?

I put £20 worth in my Civic the other week as it was all that it'd take as the tank was already two thirds full (or there abouts), I was heading off on a long drive and it made sense to fill it before I set off IMO, clearly this is all nonsense however and I am a skint arsed pleb