RE: Ford Focus RS at the 'ring: Time For Coffee
Discussion
Driver101 said:
A second?
I don't even want to go into a long debate on this as it really is clear cut. I know as a Focus owner you will defend your car to the hilt, but just look at proven times.
The A45 and the old model RS3 are 9 seconds for 100mph. The new RS3 might even get into the high 7s. The M140i makes 100mph in around 10 seconds with RWD. Even the Golf R with a manual box is setting better times.
All of the above cars will be doing 112-113mph at the end of the quarter mile other than the Golf at 105mph.
The Focus is nowhere near that. 12-13 seconds for 100mph and very few get 104mph on the quarter mile. There's a number of cars flapping around at under 100mph. Even cars with significant modifications are only managing the times and speeds of the standard hyper hatches.
Very pedantic on the tyre front. Michelin's first line on the sales spiel is the tyres are designed for track use. They are road legal, but designed for track performance. I'm sure most people would refer to them as track tyres. The performance gains they claim are huge.
It's fine comparing the times to other cars using the similar tyres. That wasn't the comparison earlier in the thread. Compairing the Focus doing a 8.06 and the Civic doing a 7.43 on the same tyres is fine. I don't think it's so fair to compare Cup 2 tyres v standard road tyres.
An RS3 is about £10k more. An A45 is about £15k more. Yes they have more power and are faster in a straight line but they are several thousand pounds more expensive.I don't even want to go into a long debate on this as it really is clear cut. I know as a Focus owner you will defend your car to the hilt, but just look at proven times.
The A45 and the old model RS3 are 9 seconds for 100mph. The new RS3 might even get into the high 7s. The M140i makes 100mph in around 10 seconds with RWD. Even the Golf R with a manual box is setting better times.
All of the above cars will be doing 112-113mph at the end of the quarter mile other than the Golf at 105mph.
The Focus is nowhere near that. 12-13 seconds for 100mph and very few get 104mph on the quarter mile. There's a number of cars flapping around at under 100mph. Even cars with significant modifications are only managing the times and speeds of the standard hyper hatches.
Very pedantic on the tyre front. Michelin's first line on the sales spiel is the tyres are designed for track use. They are road legal, but designed for track performance. I'm sure most people would refer to them as track tyres. The performance gains they claim are huge.
It's fine comparing the times to other cars using the similar tyres. That wasn't the comparison earlier in the thread. Compairing the Focus doing a 8.06 and the Civic doing a 7.43 on the same tyres is fine. I don't think it's so fair to compare Cup 2 tyres v standard road tyres.
I still have the receipt for the SS at santa pod, 104mph at the end, as were the other RS's I believe. This was 1 second slower over a 1/4 mile than the standard m135i' were doing.
A standard RS is faster than a standard Golf R manual, all the performance stats and youtube videos will show you that.
And yes you can compare cars with like for like tyres around a track which is what people have been doing.
The point people are making is that the RS is far more fun than all the cars mentioned and several thousands pounds cheaper than the quickest 2 and certainly not "slower than the rest of the hot hatches", it is faster than almost anything in the same price range.
8m06 around the ring is absolutely rapid as per the times posted previously and the car is lots of fun.
If your car can manage to better that 'Ring time and is even half as fun as the RS then it is something very special indeed.
scherzkeks said:
Robert-lhcbq said:
scherzkeks said:
Eh, no.
Yes mate.This is false. The statement is ridiculous on its face.
Also
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/general-pistonhea...
Edit:
Oo that article answers anther question on here ". Lap times are not being discussed but he does reveal the Cup 2 tyre option (a dealer accessory in the UK) is worth 10-12 seconds on a lap of the Nordschleife. "
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 15:51
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 15:55
Debaser said:
Zero understeer? Must feel bloody weird to drive!
Never raced a kart? I feel sorry for you if you've never turned a steering wheel and immediately felt the car turn in the direction you want. What a feeling! From Dan Trent:
For the avoidance of doubt though - and as referenced in our Focus RS review - the cars did start to understeer towards the end of our track session. Where earlier you'd power through on turn-in and the car would rotate on the throttle through the same corner, same gear and same speed it just pushed on. I'm guessing the front tyres were overheated/shot and once that's happened no amount of rear torque bias is going to overcome the lack of grip at the front end. As MaxTorque pointed out in the thread too there's only so much you can do to overcome the fundamental balance of a car based on a front-driven, transverse-engined hatchback so I guess there comes a point there the front tyres are simply overloaded and call time.
I.e. before the tyres are goosed, zero understeer. Objective met. Guess I've gone to school of Sebastian Vettel tyre management
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 16:31
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 16:32
scherzkeks said:
Robert-lhcbq said:
scherzkeks said:
Eh, no.
Yes mate.This is false. The statement is ridiculous on its face.
Have you made one or felt one understeer??
Ahbefive said:
An RS3 is about £10k more. An A45 is about £15k more. Yes they have more power and are faster in a straight line but they are several thousand pounds more expensive.
I still have the receipt for the SS at santa pod, 104mph at the end, as were the other RS's I believe. This was 1 second slower over a 1/4 mile than the standard m135i' were doing.
A standard RS is faster than a standard Golf R manual, all the performance stats and youtube videos will show you that.
And yes you can compare cars with like for like tyres around a track which is what people have been doing.
The point people are making is that the RS is far more fun than all the cars mentioned and several thousands pounds cheaper than the quickest 2 and certainly not "slower than the rest of the hot hatches", it is faster than almost anything in the same price range.
8m06 around the ring is absolutely rapid as per the times posted previously and the car is lots of fun.
If your car can manage to better that 'Ring time and is even half as fun as the RS then it is something very special indeed.
You're moving the goalposts and exaggerating prices to force home a point that wasn't part of the discussion. By the time you consider spec and get the cars at discounted rates the cost is much closer than that. With PCP deals the cost is even closer again. I still have the receipt for the SS at santa pod, 104mph at the end, as were the other RS's I believe. This was 1 second slower over a 1/4 mile than the standard m135i' were doing.
A standard RS is faster than a standard Golf R manual, all the performance stats and youtube videos will show you that.
And yes you can compare cars with like for like tyres around a track which is what people have been doing.
The point people are making is that the RS is far more fun than all the cars mentioned and several thousands pounds cheaper than the quickest 2 and certainly not "slower than the rest of the hot hatches", it is faster than almost anything in the same price range.
8m06 around the ring is absolutely rapid as per the times posted previously and the car is lots of fun.
If your car can manage to better that 'Ring time and is even half as fun as the RS then it is something very special indeed.
104mph for 345bhp is poor. I don't think you appreciate how much 9mph on the drag strip is. Losing to an open diff 320bhp RWD BMW M135i on a drag strip is poor. It's also a 5 year car that has been replaced by a faster model.
I beg to differ about the Golf R manual figures. The old 296bhp model was slightly quicker and the newer update has a bit more poke again.
We're going off on different tangents and finding different points of justification. My point is the Focus is slow on the straights for 345bhp. I'm not convinced about the track times either as they are all set on Cup 2 tyres.
I'll just leave this as it always upset you when someone says something you perceive to be negative about your car.
Driver101 said:
You're moving the goalposts and exaggerating prices to force home a point that wasn't part of the discussion. By the time you consider spec and get the cars at discounted rates the cost is much closer than that. With PCP deals the cost is even closer again.
104mph for 345bhp is poor. I don't think you appreciate how much 9mph on the drag strip is. Losing to an open diff 320bhp RWD BMW M135i on a drag strip is poor. It's also a 5 year car that has been replaced by a faster model.
I beg to differ about the Golf R manual figures. The old 296bhp model was slightly quicker and the newer update has a bit more poke again.
We're going off on different tangents and finding different points of justification. My point is the Focus is slow on the straights for 345bhp. I'm not convinced about the track times either as they are all set on Cup 2 tyres.
I'll just leave this as it always upset you when someone says something you perceive to be negative about your car.
Why have you ignored my post??? 105.8mph. you said less than 100.104mph for 345bhp is poor. I don't think you appreciate how much 9mph on the drag strip is. Losing to an open diff 320bhp RWD BMW M135i on a drag strip is poor. It's also a 5 year car that has been replaced by a faster model.
I beg to differ about the Golf R manual figures. The old 296bhp model was slightly quicker and the newer update has a bit more poke again.
We're going off on different tangents and finding different points of justification. My point is the Focus is slow on the straights for 345bhp. I'm not convinced about the track times either as they are all set on Cup 2 tyres.
I'll just leave this as it always upset you when someone says something you perceive to be negative about your car.
I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 10 to 12 secs at the ring. So that still puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!?? Read the articles.
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:01
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:04
Robert-lhcbq said:
Why have you ignored my post??? 105.8mph. you said less than 100.
I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 9 to 10 secs at the ring. So that puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!??
I didn't ignore your post. I'm trying to do some stuff at the same time and can't answer.I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 9 to 10 secs at the ring. So that puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!??
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:01
I said some were less than 100mph and very few get 104mph. Well done with the 105.8mph it must be a good one. 13.56 and 105.8mph still is not good and a bad start has little impact on terminal speeds.
On a track it's even more down to the driver. A lot of people don't have the ability to drive their car at 100%. Many won't push that hard at a track either.
Taking the 10-12 seconds off for Cup tyres off puts the RS 2 seconds behind the Golf R. I thought people were using the A45 as a rival and not the Golf R.
Robert-lhcbq said:
Driver101 said:
You're moving the goalposts and exaggerating prices to force home a point that wasn't part of the discussion. By the time you consider spec and get the cars at discounted rates the cost is much closer than that. With PCP deals the cost is even closer again.
104mph for 345bhp is poor. I don't think you appreciate how much 9mph on the drag strip is. Losing to an open diff 320bhp RWD BMW M135i on a drag strip is poor. It's also a 5 year car that has been replaced by a faster model.
I beg to differ about the Golf R manual figures. The old 296bhp model was slightly quicker and the newer update has a bit more poke again.
We're going off on different tangents and finding different points of justification. My point is the Focus is slow on the straights for 345bhp. I'm not convinced about the track times either as they are all set on Cup 2 tyres.
I'll just leave this as it always upset you when someone says something you perceive to be negative about your car.
Why have you ignored my post??? 105.8mph. you said less than 100.104mph for 345bhp is poor. I don't think you appreciate how much 9mph on the drag strip is. Losing to an open diff 320bhp RWD BMW M135i on a drag strip is poor. It's also a 5 year car that has been replaced by a faster model.
I beg to differ about the Golf R manual figures. The old 296bhp model was slightly quicker and the newer update has a bit more poke again.
We're going off on different tangents and finding different points of justification. My point is the Focus is slow on the straights for 345bhp. I'm not convinced about the track times either as they are all set on Cup 2 tyres.
I'll just leave this as it always upset you when someone says something you perceive to be negative about your car.
I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 10 to 12 secs at the ring. So that still puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!?? Read the articles.
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:01
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:04
After all, I may be a better negotiator than you when it comes to a discount, you might go into the dealer at the right time of the month where they might need 1 more sale to make their manufacturers quota, or my wife might go into a dealer whose products have always attracted a larger discount.
I guess we could mirror that in doing 'ring times; personally I couldn't care less if the car im interested in is 3 seconds a lap quicker than another make and model, but in many ways driving a car flat out is the ONLY way to make sure that the playing field is levelled....
Besides which, my third-choice car (i.e. the car that is the furthest down the list of the ones I own, a 248k Audi A4 B5 1.8t Quattro Sport), is plenty fast/slow enough for the school run, in fact Ill be as bold as to say it's as fast as the FRS on my journey 😜
rtz62 said:
I'm sorry Driver101, I'll disagree with you here; you can only fairly compare each car based on their list price, and not some sort of voodoo-derived figure.
After all, I may be a better negotiator than you when it comes to a discount, you might go into the dealer at the right time of the month where they might need 1 more sale to make their manufacturers quota, or my wife might go into a dealer whose products have always attracted a larger discount.
I guess we could mirror that in doing 'ring times; personally I couldn't care less if the car im interested in is 3 seconds a lap quicker than another make and model, but in many ways driving a car flat out is the ONLY way to make sure that the playing field is levelled....
Besides which, my third-choice car (i.e. the car that is the furthest down the list of the ones I own, a 248k Audi A4 B5 1.8t Quattro Sport), is plenty fast/slow enough for the school run, in fact Ill be as bold as to say it's as fast as the FRS on my journey ??
After all, I may be a better negotiator than you when it comes to a discount, you might go into the dealer at the right time of the month where they might need 1 more sale to make their manufacturers quota, or my wife might go into a dealer whose products have always attracted a larger discount.
I guess we could mirror that in doing 'ring times; personally I couldn't care less if the car im interested in is 3 seconds a lap quicker than another make and model, but in many ways driving a car flat out is the ONLY way to make sure that the playing field is levelled....
Besides which, my third-choice car (i.e. the car that is the furthest down the list of the ones I own, a 248k Audi A4 B5 1.8t Quattro Sport), is plenty fast/slow enough for the school run, in fact Ill be as bold as to say it's as fast as the FRS on my journey ??
There is nothing vodoo-derived about the numbers. Use Google or join a member's forum to learn about deals for any car.
Carwow are currently advertising the A45 for £35,400. Coast 2 coast cars are £400 more. Approach dealers with these prices and they can match them.
Merc set the future value at £20,650 after 3 years and 30,000 miles.
Ford £16,995 and 18,000 miles and 3 years.
I'm sure there is better Ford deals, but examples I've have seen are close.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 21st July 18:14
That £35k must be an absolute basic spec A45, any link?
This is representative of 2017 cars with few miles. They are quite simply much more money unless you can show links to defy that. Carwow don't actually list any for £35k at all.
They are also much less fun and all autos.
Carwow:
Also just look at them...
This is representative of 2017 cars with few miles. They are quite simply much more money unless you can show links to defy that. Carwow don't actually list any for £35k at all.
They are also much less fun and all autos.
Carwow:
Also just look at them...
Edited by Ahbefive on Friday 21st July 18:56
Ahbefive said:
That £35k must be an absolute basic spec A45, any link?
This is representative of 2017 cars with few miles. They are quite simply much more money unless you can show links to defy that. Carwow don't actually list any for £35k at all.
They are also much less fun and all autos.
Carwow:
Also just look at them...
How did I know that it would be you to question me as being wrong again. This is representative of 2017 cars with few miles. They are quite simply much more money unless you can show links to defy that. Carwow don't actually list any for £35k at all.
They are also much less fun and all autos.
Carwow:
Also just look at them...
Edited by Ahbefive on Friday 21st July 18:56
Basic spec A45 v basic RS. The spec of a standard A45 is higher than the RS.
In performance cars that have the option of manual or auto it's the auto that outsells the manual by a long way. I would confidentially bet if Ford offered a DCT box it would also do so.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 21st July 19:22
Driver101 said:
Robert-lhcbq said:
Why have you ignored my post??? 105.8mph. you said less than 100.
I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 9 to 10 secs at the ring. So that puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!??
I didn't ignore your post. I'm trying to do some stuff at the same time and can't answer.I lapped Curborough last week 4 tenths faster than am A45 AMG and 2 tenths off a 911. It is definitely not slow on a track.
I'm not convinced you're reviewing all of the facts without ignoring the ones which are against your agenda.
There are countless videos on YouTube of the RS on PSS beating its rivals on track. Car throttle being one. See above post also where Tyrone Johnson says the cup2s are worth 9 to 10 secs at the ring. So that puts the times on a par with the rivals discussed, however said magazine may well have tested those on cup 2s too. How do you know otherwise!!??
Edited by Robert-lhcbq on Friday 21st July 17:01
I said some were less than 100mph and very few get 104mph. Well done with the 105.8mph it must be a good one. 13.56 and 105.8mph still is not good and a bad start has little impact on terminal speeds.
On a track it's even more down to the driver. A lot of people don't have the ability to drive their car at 100%. Many won't push that hard at a track either.
Taking the 10-12 seconds off for Cup tyres off puts the RS 2 seconds behind the Golf R. I thought people were using the A45 as a rival and not the Golf R.
Everyone who has been in or seen my RS is impressed by it. Maybe I should take you for a spin. Trust me, it's awesome.
Note, 13.5s at 105.8mph is very similar to what a manual E46 M3 can do over the 1/4 mile.
343hp, approx 1550kg. Close to the specs of an RS. So how is the RS slow for its power and weight?
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