STI TT lap vs Nürburgring...?

[RobM77]

Olivera said:

RB Will said:

... That is 800+bhp and was about 3 secs quicker than the iom / nurb impreza at Goodwood.

I've just done the maths, the gobstopper was 1.96 seconds faster than the IOM impreza at goodwood, not 3.

Anyways, given this IOM impreza was a trick bit of kit, with lots of WRC and further development thrown at it, it goes to show it takes a lot of effort to get any saloon car or even tin top under 7 minutes.

Does this count as a tin top?



I know what you mean though, for something road legal or based on road legal to go under 7 minutes is extremely rare.

[Olivera]

Rob, go watch the demo DTM car run round the northloop from about a year ago. It's clear it would obliterate the 956 record.

[DeolTheBeast]

Olivera said:

Rob, go watch the demo DTM car run round the northloop from about a year ago. It's clear it would obliterate the 956 record.

Not sure if joking or?

Edit: just saw the clip of the 2016 DTM M4 running at the Nordschleife...close observers watching the video work out a time of around 6:30-6.40...nowhere near Bellof

Edited by DeolTheBeast on Friday 21st July 23:04

[RobM77]

Olivera said:

Rob, go watch the demo DTM car run round the northloop from about a year ago. It's clear it would obliterate the 956 record.

Eh? I was just joking by posting the first sub 7 tin top that popped into my head. You've replied like I'm saying nothing with a roof could ever beat it?! How on earth did you infer that from what I said? For starters the 962 was quicker

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 21st July 22:56

[Olivera]

DeolTheBeast said:

Not sure if joking or?

Edit: just saw the clip of the 2016 DTM M4 running at the Nordschleife...close observers watching the video work out a time of around 6:30-6.40...nowhere near Bellof

Edited by DeolTheBeast on Friday 21st July 23:04

Eh? It was slowing down all over the place and still managed that time. Full pace, no slowing down, no speed limits, no passenger etc and it could easily take 30 seconds off that time.

[DeolTheBeast]

Olivera said:

Eh? It was slowing down all over the place and still managed that time. Full pace, no slowing down, no speed limits, no passenger etc and it could easily take 30 seconds off that time.

I personally just don't see it being capable - the main issue is that they won't ever send out a car like that on an official time, because it's pointless (never needs to compete at the full 'ring) ... if a private owner cash loaded a solo attempt with a top driver, maybe they could get within 5-10 seconds

[RB Will]

Olivera said:

RB Will said:

... That is 800+bhp and was about 3 secs quicker than the iom / nurb impreza at Goodwood.

I've just done the maths, the gobstopper was 1.96 seconds faster than the IOM impreza at goodwood, not 3.

Prodrive car at Goodwood was 48.25
Gobstopper was 44.91

That's 3.34 secs quicker

[M030ef00]

thegreenhell said:

Subaru have been building a car for Ring attack. Here's the preview video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4HmoOAqtm8


Then today this happened

This happened..?

You mean they broke 7min??


I think they should produce a road version that can be upgraded for less than £5k to a sub 7min 30sec car. Loaded did it with an old M3...

[anonymous-user]

Max_Torque said:

Interesting use of the word "facts"


Answer this question: On a circuit were cars and bikes are both allowed to run (ie not the IOM TT course which is of course closed to cars except for a very few exceptions) is there ANY circuit on the planet where a bike holds the ultimate lap record?

I thought this thread was about the TT circuit, that's what it says in the title. My mistake.

Yes, an F1 car may be the ultimate machine and faster than any bike but the sport itself and most short circuit racing for that matter is rather dull IMHO, which is why I prefer road racing.

[RobM77]

wormus said:

Max_Torque said:

Interesting use of the word "facts"


Answer this question: On a circuit were cars and bikes are both allowed to run (ie not the IOM TT course which is of course closed to cars except for a very few exceptions) is there ANY circuit on the planet where a bike holds the ultimate lap record?

I thought this thread was about the TT circuit, that's what it says in the title. My mistake.

Yes, an F1 car may be the ultimate machine and faster than any bike but the sport itself and most short circuit racing for that matter is rather dull IMHO, which is why I prefer road racing.

Nobody's contesting that, I'm sure most of us prefer bike racing as a spectator sport. What you were saying yesterday (see the previous page) about lots of cars trying and failing to be fastest on the TT course simply isn't true though.

[anonymous-user]

RobM77 said:

Nobody's contesting that, I'm sure most of us prefer bike racing as a spectator sport. What you were saying yesterday (see the previous page) about lots of cars trying and failing to be fastest on the TT course simply isn't true though.

I said nothing about lots of cars, only that those who have tried have have failed and bikes are the fastest around the TT circuit and always have been. It's been going since 1907 so they've had plenty of chances. That's just a fact.

Cars are usually much slower on the roads open or closed.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 22 July 23:43

[RobM77]

wormus said:

RobM77 said:

Nobody's contesting that, I'm sure most of us prefer bike racing as a spectator sport. What you were saying yesterday (see the previous page) about lots of cars trying and failing to be fastest on the TT course simply isn't true though.

I said nothing about lots of cars, only that those who have tried have have failed and bikes are the fastest around the TT circuit and always have been. It's been going since 1907 so they've had plenty of chances. That's just a fact.

Cars are usually much slower on the roads open or closed.

Edited by wormus on Saturday 22 July 23:43

You're grossly misrepresentimg the truth though (or just trolling...). There have been thousands upon thousands of bike laps over that whole timespan and a mere handful of car laps, and those cars have all been tin tops. It's pretty dam obvious that if cars were given a proper shot and if proper racimg cars had a go then they'd be hugely quicker, like they are on every other circuit in the world; long, short, road, or track. That doesn't diminish the spectacle - most of us are after a watchable and exciting sport, which bike road racing provides in spades.

Your final statement is only true if there's traffic, unless you honestly think that's the case on a closed road?!

[anonymous-user]

Not trolling, just laying things out as I see them. There's a common belief that cars will always be quicker than bikes which simply isn't true. On a nice, flat, well surfaced, wide race track, yes the cars will normally do better, and certainly in the wet.

However, bikes have better straight line acceleration and they are narrower so can take more of the bends flat out when on the road. Ballagarey is one corner on the TT circuit that demonstrates this.

Yes there have been thousands of bike laps but they weren't all done by the same person and it's doing Mark Higgins a disservice to suggest he doesn't go as fast because he doesn't know it well.

An F1 car might be faster on a short circuit but it would never race the TT circuit because the road doesn't lend itself to the parameters the car must work within. Cars have more mechanical grip and in most cases that puts them on top except they also tend to be much heavier and much slower to accelerate....on average.

[DoubleD]

Its pretty pointless arguing about what might be faster at a track. The only real way to figure this out for sure would be to list tracks where both types regularly compete and see which are faster.

[anonymous-user]

wormus said:

Not trolling, just laying things out as I see them. There's a common belief that cars will always be quicker than bikes which simply isn't true. On a nice, flat, well surfaced, wide race track, yes the cars will normally do better, and certainly in the wet.

However, bikes have better straight line acceleration and they are narrower so can take more of the bends flat out when on the road. Ballagarey is one corner on the TT circuit that demonstrates this.

Yes there have been thousands of bike laps but they weren't all done by the same person and it's doing Mark Higgins a disservice to suggest he doesn't go as fast because he doesn't know it well.

An F1 car might be faster on a short circuit but it would never race the TT circuit because the road doesn't lend itself to the parameters the car must work within. Cars have more mechanical grip and in most cases that puts them on top except they also tend to be much heavier and much slower to accelerate....on average.

one word: DOWNFORCE


If you can't understand the significance of that word, then i'm afraid your too ignorant to continue this "discussion".....

[anonymous-user]

Max_Torque said:

one word: DOWNFORCE


If you can't understand the significance of that word, then i'm afraid your too ignorant to continue this "discussion".....

No need to be rude just because I don't necessarily agree with you. I may not be an insufferable know it all but at least I have the good manners to not insult people I don't know and have never met.

[blade7]

What is the obsession for car fanatics to want cars be fastest on every circuit? I think they've probably had their arse handed to them on the road by a small bike and can't come to terms with it. As for the unrestricted Scooby time at the TT, stick a turbo 1200cc engine in Michael Dunlops bike so it could pull 230+mph on the long straights and see what time it does then

[ZX10R NIN]

The debate isn't what's faster around a Circuit the answer is simple to that one & it's a CAR end of discussion

The real question how much money do you have to spend to get the car to be faster than the bike, for example is you buy a 18k bike:

R1M
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-R1M-2016-MODEL-YZ...

GSX-R 1000
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-GSX-R1000R-MotoGP...

Now how much more would you have to spend at a dealership to get close to a showroom spec 1000cc Sportsbike laptime around a circuit.

[blade7]

ZX10R NIN said:

Now how much more would you have to spend at a dealership to get close to a showroom spec 1000cc Sportsbike laptime around a circuit.

I give up, how much?

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

The debate isn't what's faster around a Circuit the answer is simple to that one & it's a CAR end of discussion

The real question how much money do you have to spend to get the car to be faster than the bike, for example is you buy a 18k bike:

R1M
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YAMAHA-R1M-2016-MODEL-YZ...

GSX-R 1000
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-GSX-R1000R-MotoGP...

Now how much more would you have to spend at a dealership to get close to a showroom spec 1000cc Sportsbike laptime around a circuit.

And to counter that, how much would it cost to make a bike NCAP5 star compliant? Horses, for courses eh!

I'm a big fan of bikes, in terms of mph/££ they are untouchable, but they are a one trick pony (which is fine as long as you only want to do one trick...... ;-)