STI TT lap vs Nürburgring...?

[anonymous-user]

wormus said:

Max_Torque said:

one word: DOWNFORCE


If you can't understand the significance of that word, then i'm afraid your too ignorant to continue this "discussion".....

No need to be rude just because I don't necessarily agree with you. I may not be an insufferable know it all but at least I have the good manners to not insult people I don't know and have never met.

But you're not disagreeing with me, which tbh, i couldn't care less about, you are disagreeing with the fundamental laws of physics. To me that makes you as "stupid" as people who say "the earth is flat" (and yes, in 2017, there still are some of those prats)........

[ZX10R NIN]

Max_Torque said:

And to counter that, how much would it cost to make a bike NCAP5 star compliant? Horses, for courses eh!

I'm a big fan of bikes, in terms of mph/££ they are untouchable, but they are a one trick pony (which is fine as long as you only want to do one trick...... ;-)

I counter with Caterham Ginetta Radical not being NCAP5 star compliant?

I'm not fussed whether it's NCAP5 or not my point is how much does it cost to get close & by the way a good track car is a one trick pony too.

I'm not saying one is better than the other I'm just asking PH how much it would cost to get close?

As I said earlier a car will always be quicker (Downforce BHP Brakes Tyres will all see to that) than a bike but what do have to spend to get their?

Maybe a Ginetta G55/Porsche GT3 RS/Litchfield LM20 new or a used modified GT-R35/Evo

As an example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-R35-GTR-R35GTR-BL...

to maybe only have to double the money isn't a bad shout.

[anonymous-user]

Max_Torque said:

But you're not disagreeing with me, which tbh, i couldn't care less about, you are disagreeing with the fundamental laws of physics. To me that makes you as "stupid" as people who say "the earth is flat" (and yes, in 2017, there still are some of those prats)........

I think you need to learn to read a little more carefully to understand as I haven't written any of those things, nor am I stupid. I am simply stating the facts - not all cars are faster than all bikes and in spite of Subaru spending £600k to build a stripped out racer to do the job, it could only match a £8.5k motorbike that can be bought from a shop. Similarly, an F1 car, which on a circuit is much faster than a bike, would fail at the TT because the surface is neither flat or wide enough to let the car do the job it was designed for. So yes, I am disagreeing with you and blurting out random words like "Downforce", "Stupid" and "Physics" just makes you sound like an angry person who struggles to explain themselves.

[blade7]

ZX10R NIN said:

As an example:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NISSAN-R35-GTR-R35GTR-BL...

to maybe only have to double the money isn't a bad shout.

If you're going to use a 2nd hand, leggy, modified car as an example I'll counter with the same in an S1000RR for a quarter of the money. I'd guess there's situations where it would spank the Datsun too.

[ZX10R NIN]

No my criteria was specific I asked what it would cost to match a showroom ready 1000cc Sportsbike, I listed both new & used cars therefore a used example is a fair comparison.

That's why I listed a GT3 RS LM20 Litchfield etc for the new vehicles.

Keep up man or is it because you have a Blade that you're struggling

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 23 July 17:31

[blade7]

ZX10R NIN said:

Keep up man or is it because you have a Blade that you're struggling

Maybe you need to keep up, the last blade I had was 14 years ago

[DoubleD]

wormus said:

I think you need to learn to read a little more carefully to understand as I haven't written any of those things, nor am I stupid. I am simply stating the facts - not all cars are faster than all bikes and in spite of Subaru spending £600k to build a stripped out racer to do the job, it could only match a £8.5k motorbike that can be bought from a shop. Similarly, an F1 car, which on a circuit is much faster than a bike, would fail at the TT because the surface is neither flat or wide enough to let the car do the job it was designed for. So yes, I am disagreeing with you and blurting out random words like "Downforce", "Stupid" and "Physics" just makes you sound like an angry person who struggles to explain themselves.

Why would an F1 car fail around the TT? The width of the track isnt an issue. Bad bumps would unsettle the car, but they have to deal with bumps from when they go over chicanes.

[anonymous-user]

DoubleD said:

Why would an F1 car fail around the TT? The width of the track isnt an issue. Bad bumps would unsettle the car, but they have to deal with bumps from when they go over chicanes.

It's a public road and bumpier than you think especially towards the north, not at all like a purpose built race track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KuqaehOHc .That's 170mph.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 23 July 18:38

[ZX10R NIN]

blade7 said:

Maybe you need to keep up, the last blade I had was 14 years ago

& I'd know that how? It was a light hearted comment chillout.

[RobM77]

blade7 said:

What is the obsession for car fanatics to want cars be fastest on every circuit? I think they've probably had their arse handed to them on the road by a small bike and can't come to terms with it. As for the unrestricted Scooby time at the TT, stick a turbo 1200cc engine in Michael Dunlops bike so it could pull 230+mph on the long straights and see what time it does then

For me it's simply caring about what's true. Perhaps too much sometimes! The difference between bikes and cars is just so enormous that it's stuns me to see people ignorant of this. I'm not just talking about smooth tracks either, I'm talking about hillclimbs, some of them on the IOM.... If people don't see that though I guess that's fair enough.

[Weso]

wormus said:

DoubleD said:

Why would an F1 car fail around the TT? The width of the track isnt an issue. Bad bumps would unsettle the car, but they have to deal with bumps from when they go over chicanes.

It's a public road and bumpier than you think especially towards the north, not at all like a purpose built race track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KuqaehOHc .That's 170mph.

Edited by wormus on Sunday 23 July 18:38

Pretty sure they would struggle over Ballaugh tbh.
Wes

[DoubleD]

wormus said:

DoubleD said:

Why would an F1 car fail around the TT? The width of the track isnt an issue. Bad bumps would unsettle the car, but they have to deal with bumps from when they go over chicanes.

It's a public road and bumpier than you think especially towards the north, not at all like a purpose built race track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46KuqaehOHc .That's 170mph.

Edited by wormus on Sunday 23 July 18:38

They would just adjust the suspension to suit. The answer on this though is that we dont know which would be quicker as they have never run an F1 car there. Easier to look at circuits where both types do run.

[anonymous-user]

So a motorbike, that has to drive and brake on a single tyre, and corner on two (in a line) can get over bumps, but an F1 car which has four tyres, and a CofG in the middle of those tyres (and about 2 foot lower than on a bike) and has downforce, can't?

You lot haven't though this through have you........

[ZX10R NIN]

RobM77 said:

For me it's simply caring about what's true. Perhaps too much sometimes! The difference between bikes and cars is just so enormous that it's stuns me to see people ignorant of this. I'm not just talking about smooth tracks either, I'm talking about hillclimbs, some of them on the IOM.... If people don't see that though I guess that's fair enough.

I think everyone knows that ultimately that a car will be quicker at the end of the day you can only put so much power through a tyre no bigger than a baseball cap & that's before we got to having to haul over 220kgs (with rider & fuel) up on a 120 section tyre.

That's why I went towards how much it would cost to match a showroom spec bike, I have a friend with a well sorted RS265 Megane pushing around 330bhp (all in it stands him in around 25k) & he doesn't get close to my MV (which is not the sharpest 1000cc out there) around Donington (it's the only only on we've both used) circuit.

[blade7]

ZX10R NIN said:

I think everyone knows that ultimately that a car will be quicker at the end of the day

I have a friend with a well sorted RS265 Megane pushing around 330bhp (all in it stands him in around 25k) & he doesn't get close to my MV (which is not the sharpest 1000cc out there) around Donington (it's the only only on we've both used) circuit.

[ZX10R NIN]

blade7 said:

You stick to your 14 year old blade anything sharper & you might hurt yourself

[RB Will]

Love whenever the bikers finally come round to accepting that ultimately a car is faster everywhere except a motocross course then the argument switches to well the bikes are cheaper.
What is the point even bringing that up? A desperate need for the bike to be better at something?

[ZX10R NIN]

A car is faster at a race track yes getting down a good A/B road then it's a no as the bike will always have an advantage over the car just in their ability to dispense with traffic & that's before the performance advantage.

[RB Will]

Yeah bikes have an easier time overtaking, other drivers don't seem to get miffed about a bike coming past and slotting into an unsafe small gap between cars where if I did that in a car they would go mental.

The counter problem if we are switching to real life is that only about 0.001% of bike riders can get anywhere above 70% of a bikes ability although they usually think they are Guy Martin.

I can't recall a time in my 14 years of road driving when I have ever been caught and or passed by a bike when I have not been stuck behind someone else. Plenty of times I have caught or left bikes though.

[RobM77]

RB Will said:

Yeah bikes have an easier time overtaking, other drivers don't seem to get miffed about a bike coming past and slotting into an unsafe small gap between cars where if I did that in a car they would go mental.

The counter problem if we are switching to real life is that only about 0.001% of bike riders can get anywhere above 70% of a bikes ability although they usually think they are Guy Martin.

I can't recall a time in my 14 years of road driving when I have ever been caught and or passed by a bike when I have not been stuck behind someone else. Plenty of times I have caught or left bikes though.

Same here - I've been held up by plenty of bikes in corners, but I'm not sure I've ever been overtaken by one out of traffic. This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree, but I would say that's because it takes more skill to ride a bike truly fast and it's more risky. The skill of working out the best way around a racetrack is identical, because you're doing the same thing in terms of lines, but the actual act of controlling the machine really quickly is probably more difficult on two wheels, and it's certainly more scary! You've also got bumps, which as Max Torque points out above, affect a bike way more than a car - speak to any biker at the Nurburgring and bumps is mainly what they talk about with wide eyes, whereas you never hear car drivers even mention them. Also surface changes, manhole covers, white lines etc.